Base soil

[itchybro]

as a soil amendment should be fine the way it is but coffee grinding it as a flour wouldn't hurt either , when i use oyster shell i always used it as a flour , always figured the smaller it was the easier it was for soil life to consume it

 

[junglelover]

as a soil amendment should be fine the way it is but coffee grinding it as a flour wouldn't hurt either , when i use oyster shell i always used it as a flour , always figured the smaller it was the easier it was for soil life to consume it

Smaller particles have a bigger surface area and will neutralize acidic soil faster but larger particles will be slower release. You may want to use a little of both. This is an article about lime size but I believe the same would apply to your shell grit. https://library.dpird.wa.gov.au/cgi...r=1&article=1025&context=journal_agriculture4

 

[Beil]

Smaller particles have a bigger surface area and will neutralize acidic soil faster but larger particles will be slower release. You may want to use a little of both. This is an article about lime size but I believe the same would apply to your shell grit. https://library.dpird.wa.gov.au/cgi...r=1&article=1025&context=journal_agriculture4

Based on that, I think I'll grind it down. Being a seasonal crop and it possibly taking years for lime (shell?) To completely dissolve, it makes sense to grind it to a smaller particle size and have more rapid results. I can always add more finely milled shell to my topdress if I suspect calcium deficiency later on I guess? (From dissolving and being washed away)
The increased crop production in barley (woop, beer) of 24% for milled lime addition 2.5t/Ha (vs no lime at all) and 36% for milled lime addition 5t/Ha seems worthwhile... Although I can't see any actual figure results for the unmilled portion (other than 'not statistically significant ' - I do wish they'd add some figures though! But if it's not worth mentioning the actual results when there's a 26-36% increase with the milled, seems like a no brainer.
Makes sense that aside from pH buffering, the Ca would become available quicker to the plant with a finer mill like Itchy said, which I guess is why the buffering occurs faster .
The paper talks only about pH in relation to the lime, I'm guessing there may be a relationship to pH and Ca uptake that Benefits plants aswell (meh, I'll google that after I post this).
I just realised that the average particle size of the un milled lime in that paper was about 0.2mm so wayyyy smaller than the photo I showed above (which are looking at 1-2mm with no doubt some dust at the bottom) so it definitely needs milling to even begin to compare to any of the results?.
Cheers Junglelover, right up my alley with that link

 

[Beil]

Question for the super/living soil folks;
Does anyone get through a whole grow (ideally outdoors to be relevant to myself) with only using water?
Or do you find yourself (whether needing to or not), giving additional top dress, teas etc throughout?
And I guess if you have done that but also supplemented PK during flowering, noticed any dramatic improvements?
I have no qualms about supplementing, but from reading it seems the whole super/living soil thing is 'supoosed' to be water only as it contains everything a growing plant requires

The super soil mixes have (ample?) P & K (actually, I'm not sure where high amounts of K come from, guano gots the P, but not much specifically high K in the mixes. The kelp meal seems the best with ranges from 2-4K, so is 'that' the K aspect? (Side note, got the kelp meal tonight, so that sits alongside the manure, guano, blood & bone & seamungus, will be getting the shell grit and Lucerne on the weekend before the last spendings next week of perlite, worm castings, gypsum, loam (want some clay in there to help retain nutrients) and the seasol biochar (inc. rock dust)).
After the microbes have done their thing, is there not a risk of essentially washing away the PK before the plant really needs it? Or are we not watering to run off with this stuff?

*Going to add NPK values to my notes file to have a think about it... Yes, overthinking it like I think someone has mentioned before, but I enjoy it

 

[Beil]

Is there any reason not to use the sulphate of potash I have in the shed in this mix at the start?
I guess my concern about washing out is still relevant, but if I were to supplement, a weekly drench of dissolved potash and guano at flowering? Or would that be over kill, and better to top dress at the start of flowering and that'll do?
Woop, questions.

 

[Harry bootlace]

I’ve grown many plants in the ground with nothing. Not even water except rain.
In the bush. Used to be how I grew as a youngster.
I know that doesn’t answer your real question but I’d say yes you can.
Even now I do very little after planted. Probably less in a grow than many do in a week.
Good soil, water and of a deficiency shows I can think about adding something.


I really think indoors plants seem to be much more fussy about getting everything right, outdoors more forgiving.

 

[Beil]

I’ve grown many plants in the ground with nothing. Not even water except rain.
In the bush. Used to be how I grew as a youngster.
I know that doesn’t answer your real question but I’d say yes you can.
Even now I do very little after planted. Probably less in a grow than many do in a week.
Good soil, water and of a deficiency shows I can think about adding something.


I really think indoors plants seem to be much more fussy about getting everything right, outdoors more forgiving.

Yeah, I've always managed to grow stuff outside in ground, but with veg and stuff it's like meh, I'm saving a few $$ and never really needed to try to hard.
I became against fruit trees in pots after noticing how much better they do with unrestricted root space in the ground, I think this is part of my reservation with growing canna in pots; The contained space. (that and I want to do the best job I can; max input for max output!
I should have probably said outdoor in pots, in the ground/bed I reckon I wouldn't worry as much and just amend the soil before and allow the roots to find their way and fertilise every now and then.

If my state ever becomes legal, I'd love to just put them in the ground and let them rip like some of the in ground grows I see on here without the worry of feds (still worry about neighbours, but they seem 'not dodgy' so . But suburbs is annoying, not as close knit as the new builds, still got decent spacings with our 88 build, but I can't be growing big 1.8m trees, as much as I'd love to. I oogle those Humboldt in ground grows, fucking massive trees!

 

[Harry bootlace]

Ha yeah. I haven’t had great plants in pots. I know people do though.
I like in the ground for all sorts of reasons. Not the least just for aesthetic reasons.

But yeah I’d love to be able to grow a jungle and not worry at all.

One day. ( then be ripped off by teenagers)

 

[Donothing-garden]

Question for the super/living soil folks;
Does anyone get through a whole grow (ideally outdoors to be relevant to myself) with only using water?
Or do you find yourself (whether needing to or not), giving additional top dress, teas etc throughout?
And I guess if you have done that but also supplemented PK during flowering, noticed any dramatic improvements?
I have no qualms about supplementing, but from reading it seems the whole super/living soil thing is 'supoosed' to be water only as it contains everything a growing plant requires

The super soil mixes have (ample?) P & K (actually, I'm not sure where high amounts of K come from, guano gots the P, but not much specifically high K in the mixes. The kelp meal seems the best with ranges from 2-4K, so is 'that' the K aspect? (Side note, got the kelp meal tonight, so that sits alongside the manure, guano, blood & bone & seamungus, will be getting the shell grit and Lucerne on the weekend before the last spendings next week of perlite, worm castings, gypsum, loam (want some clay in there to help retain nutrients) and the seasol biochar (inc. rock dust)).
After the microbes have done their thing, is there not a risk of essentially washing away the PK before the plant really needs it? Or are we not watering to run off with this stuff?

*Going to add NPK values to my notes file to have a think about it... Yes, overthinking it like I think someone has mentioned before, but I enjoy it

I add potassium sulphate, soft rock phosphate, fish meal and insect Frass... Which all contain P and K

 

[Donothing-garden]

Question for the super/living soil folks;
Does anyone get through a whole grow (ideally outdoors to be relevant to myself) with only using water?
Or do you find yourself (whether needing to or not), giving additional top dress, teas etc throughout?
And I guess if you have done that but also supplemented PK during flowering, noticed any dramatic improvements?
I have no qualms about supplementing, but from reading it seems the whole super/living soil thing is 'supoosed' to be water only as it contains everything a growing plant requires

The super soil mixes have (ample?) P & K (actually, I'm not sure where high amounts of K come from, guano gots the P, but not much specifically high K in the mixes. The kelp meal seems the best with ranges from 2-4K, so is 'that' the K aspect? (Side note, got the kelp meal tonight, so that sits alongside the manure, guano, blood & bone & seamungus, will be getting the shell grit and Lucerne on the weekend before the last spendings next week of perlite, worm castings, gypsum, loam (want some clay in there to help retain nutrients) and the seasol biochar (inc. rock dust)).
After the microbes have done their thing, is there not a risk of essentially washing away the PK before the plant really needs it? Or are we not watering to run off with this stuff?

*Going to add NPK values to my notes file to have a think about it... Yes, overthinking it like I think someone has mentioned before, but I enjoy it

Don't water to runoff to avoid leeching nutrients.

 

[itchybro]

soil volume & consistent moisture

if your growing in pots that are too small you'll never make it to the end without some sort of liquid supplementation
if you grow in larger soil volumes & your watering isn't on point your plant will suffer

i would & do spend much of my thinking time on plant health & very little on plant nutrition , i also have used in the past my own soil mix that has worked for me on repeat & these days rely on @Donothing-garden / easy as organics to have put in the time & testing on soil mixing , soil life not only consume organic matter but they consume each other which adds plant available nutrients to the soil , the plant is in total control of this life around it's root system , if you over water you negatively impact that soil life , if you under water you negatively impact that soil life

you can def target nutrients through a grow & add X & Y with a little extra Z for good measure , but until you know what the basic gives you there is no base line to work from , you'll have no idea whether X Y or Z do anything or do allot

def don't water to run off , rather than a larger volume of water added till you get run off less frequently , think smaller amounts of water with no run off more frequently , mulch helps with this & imo a living mulch is a better choice

things like Dichondra Repens as a low growing ground cover & different types of grasses like barley , oat , rye etc etc , the diachondra is mostly shallow rooted while the grasses are more deep rooted & will grow through the diachondra easily , the grasses won't effect or get in the way of your cash crop above , a ground cover like a green manure mix can , although the soil life diversity of a green manure is def a positive , grasses are also easy to chop & drop & push through the diachondra to the soil surface to break down , when you chop the grass will dump some of its root system to keep the plant in balance , in doing so that dump of root system will be consumed by the soil life under the soil surface deeper in the pot , plants need enough leaf matter to support it's root system in the ground or pot & V a V , it needs enough root system under the ground to support the structure above the ground , if you chop the top a plant will do what it needs to find a balance including killing off some of it's roots , the work of Australian soil biologist Christine Jones talks about this if you want to youtube her for a listen

outdoor in ground growing is every plants ball park , this is what they know & they have full access to the soil food web & are not hindered by a fake environment with a fake sun & a cut down or limited soil food web , not that you can't tune that environment & LED's are getting pretty good these days , even compost teas & extracts can help with the food web indoors

but outdoors you can find trees a hundred years old , no one has been popping out to these trees with a retractable hose & a bottle of power feed , so how did they become 100yo = soil biology for the most part

 

[Squire]

Question for the super/living soil folks;
Does anyone get through a whole grow (ideally outdoors to be relevant to myself) with only using water?
Or do you find yourself (whether needing to or not), giving additional top dress, teas etc throughout?
And I guess if you have done that but also supplemented PK during flowering, noticed any dramatic improvements?
I have no qualms about supplementing, but from reading it seems the whole super/living soil thing is 'supoosed' to be water only as it contains everything a growing plant requires

The super soil mixes have (ample?) P & K (actually, I'm not sure where high amounts of K come from, guano gots the P, but not much specifically high K in the mixes. The kelp meal seems the best with ranges from 2-4K, so is 'that' the K aspect? (Side note, got the kelp meal tonight, so that sits alongside the manure, guano, blood & bone & seamungus, will be getting the shell grit and Lucerne on the weekend before the last spendings next week of perlite, worm castings, gypsum, loam (want some clay in there to help retain nutrients) and the seasol biochar (inc. rock dust)).
After the microbes have done their thing, is there not a risk of essentially washing away the PK before the plant really needs it? Or are we not watering to run off with this stuff?

*Going to add NPK values to my notes file to have a think about it... Yes, overthinking it like I think someone has mentioned before, but I enjoy it

the answer is Yes you can do water only with the right mix. However pot size is the key. I am thinking min of 50 lt depending if growing autos or photos . Photos will require bigger pot. The mix I use from a nearby landscaping yard is water only but the pot I used was not big enough became very root bound and had to feed daily during the last 4 weeks

 

[Beil]

¹

the answer is Yes you can do water only with the right mix. However pot size is the key. I am thinking min of 50 lt depending if growing autos or photos . Photos will require bigger pot. The mix I use from a nearby landscaping yard is water only but the pot I used was not big enough became very root bound and had to feed daily during the last 4 weeks

I was originally going to us 30-40L pots, but I have a load of 50L pots that I used to grow out some fruit trees before moving, so might just use them.
Will be photos.
Don't want too big of a plant though, so will be on training duty for a while.

 

[Squire]

¹

I was originally going to us 30-40L pots, but I have a load of 50L pots that I used to grow out some fruit trees before moving, so might just use them.
Will be photos.
Don't want too big of a plant though, so will be on training duty for a while.

I guess it comes back to how soon you flip them. The same plant I grew outdoor went to 2 m . Indoor contained to 1 m

 

[Beil]

I guess it comes back to how soon you flip them. The same plant I grew outdoor went to 2 m . Indoor contained to 1 m

Will getting flipped at the equinox lol

 

[itchybro]

¹

I was originally going to us 30-40L pots, but I have a load of 50L pots that I used to grow out some fruit trees before moving, so might just use them.
Will be photos.
Don't want too big of a plant though, so will be on training duty for a while.

50L is bare minimum imo , if your going to use that size pot plan ahead & don't leave them in that pot growing for 6 months , think 3 months max , the main reason smaller pots are problematic is the rate at which the pot can dry out , if organisms are growing , protecting & feeding your plant there environment needs to be kept consistent moisture wise , loose those organisms & you loose the ability for the plant to feed & protect itself , of cause 50L pot indoors is not the same as 50L pot outdoors as far as soil drying rate go's , & if your running 4 50L pots indoor i'd suggest replace those 4 with a small bed indoor & grow 4 plants in it , not saying 50L pots can't be done because i & many others have done it but i did set up a blumat system to keep that moisture consistent , also choice of cultivar is important , a more sativa based plant can stretch double or tripple it's size at flip so it's possible for a 300mm plant to finish over a meter high at harvest

 

[Harry bootlace]

2nd that. I used to think 50 litres were fine but I used to start late (from misinformation decades ago), but now I start at a better time and get bigger plants they suffer at the end. Not going to bother this season.
Someone years ago on ozstoners used wheels bins cut down a bit and holes drilled. Oh pots on wheels. Might try that some time if I want to do pots again.

 

[Donothing-garden]

If full season outdoors, 180L for a single "water only" plant is minimum. Even then, the plants are going to run out of steam towards the end.

 

[Donothing-garden]

50L is great for light dep.

 

[Beil]

If full season outdoors, 180L for a single "water only" plant is minimum. Even then, the plants are going to run out of steam towards the end.

Damn, that's like half wine barrel size isn't it?

Hmmmm, yeah I don't think I'll be going that big.

So new plan, 50L super/living soil.... Additional fertilising as needed.

In light of this, I always planned to do weekly seasol, humic, compost/worm/SST additions. So I guess I'll top dress with my soil amendments come equinox unless I notice something before