Base soil

[Beil]

yep they are for aeration , if you use the 3 part method for making a base soil , one of those parts will be aeration , i use scoria & have substituted around 5 to 15% of the scoria with rice hulls , you don't want to use to much because even though they will take time to break down they will break down removing any aeration you gained by using them

the more important thing about the use of rice hulls though is what a rice plant accumulates while it's growing , rice plants are known to accumulate arsenic , it's important not to over use them , some would prefer to keep away from them altogether

Considering my delving in cadmium and avoidance of that... I might pass on the possible Arsenic Hulls in that case lol

 

[Beil]

@itchybro the shell grit at the fodder place isn't powdered, it's like 1-2-3mm big, does this require blending to smaller particles or ok as is?

If they have kelp and shell, the only thing I can't get locally (so far) is Neem!

*And this is why I like researching for months before I implement anything, so much random useful info comes up throughout!!!

 

[Beil]

Shit, the stuff comes in like 20kg bags, almost all the amendments I'll be getting come in big arse bags, so my veggie patch is basically just going to be super soil! Bring on the big fuck off veggies!

 

[itchybro]

i was getting crushed oyster shell that was in that size = 1-3mm , generally i would turn it into a flour by using a coffee grinder attachment that came with a cheap blender i brought to blend up the kitchen scrapes for the worm farm
you can use the shells as they come but if your using the oyster shells ( calcium carbonate ) as your mixes liming agent i would turn it into a flour befor adding to my soil mix

 

[Beil]

i was getting crushed oyster shell that was in that size = 1-3mm , generally i would turn it into a flour by using a coffee grinder attachment that came with a cheap blender i brought to blend up the kitchen scrapes for the worm farm
you can use the shells as they come but if your using the oyster shells ( calcium carbonate ) as your mixes liming agent i would turn it into a flour befor adding to my soil mix

Ok so I was originally going to use dolomite lime as my liming agent, AS WELL as adding MgS04... But the ratios for dolomite lime are like 55%Ca. 45%Mg (very rounded numbers), and apparently way too much Mg (can lead to stunted plants???), especially if I was to use the MgSO4 as well (excuse the chemical formulas in places, brewing using MgSO4 too so just used to going with chemical formulas).
So.... replace the dolomite lime with crushed shell (blended, fuck it the nutri ninja has taken a beating blending everything else I have put through it), and then add the MgSO4.
Seeing as the shell has other micros, seems the best option.
See, learning by fucking asking and waiting haha.

 

[Beil]

One thing I haven't thought of till now, can you cook and leave too long... Will cooking and leaving too long reduce the nutrient value, or once the living aspect is under way, do the minerals/nutrients just become available and stay available until the plant takes it up?
From reading, cook for minimum 10 days, but I plan on getting this going soon and it will sit until planting up in spring...
Obviously the sellers of pre packaged super soils make it in bulk and then sell it.. but is there an actual noticeable decline in composition that's even worth worrying about for a few months...?

 

[itchybro]

to get calcium & magnesium i use oyster shell & gypsum as the main source of those 2 , you also get a bit of sulphur with the gypsum , sulphur will help with terpene production

organic matter gets consumed by organisms , if it go's in one end it's gotta come out the other end & when it does it's in a plant available form so the nutrients won't go away , as long as it's not exposed to the weather / kept covered , organisms don't just consume organic matter , they consume each other as well , as long as you keep the pile moist , not wet , it'll be fine for the time frame your talking about

 

[Beil]

to get calcium & magnesium i use oyster shell & gypsum as the main source of those 2 , you also get a bit of sulphur with the gypsum , sulphur will help with terpene production

organic matter gets consumed by organisms , if it go's in one end it's gotta come out the other end & when it does it's in a plant available form so the nutrients won't go away , as long as it's not exposed to the weather / kept covered , organisms don't just consume organic matter , they consume each other as well , as long as you keep the pile moist , not wet , it'll be fine for the time frame your talking about

Where does the Mg come from the mix of those 2?

From what I can see, neither have it in great quantities (more so tiny amounts) and gypsum can cause the Mg to dilute out as MgSO4 as the Mg replaces the Ca ions in soils (very simplified)... So it is/can be used in soils with excessive Mg. Unless I've read what I read, very wrong?

Sulphur is the main reason I'm adding the gypsum, but then from what I said above (which may or may not have been understood correctly), that can be leached out as MgSO4, gah...
So if there's little Mg actual added in the first place, it seems like a self depleting system?

You're probably right, I'm just going by what I'm understanding when researching Ca/Mg relationship... Probably best to look up the Ca/Ma lock out etc I've seen come up.

Yeah, I'm going to go to the books on this as my interest is peaked. If you'd like to provide some key words to look up, I'll save you the task of explaining it to me lol. Although I'm still a bit puzzled as to where the Mg is coming from with just gypsum/oyster shell

 

[Beil]

Also I appreciate you taking the time with me

 

[junglelover]

Ok so I was originally going to use dolomite lime as my liming agent, AS WELL as adding MgS04... But the ratios for dolomite lime are like 55%Ca. 45%Mg (very rounded numbers), and apparently way too much Mg (can lead to stunted plants???), especially if I was to use the MgSO4 as well (excuse the chemical formulas in places, brewing using MgSO4 too so just used to going with chemical formulas).
So.... replace the dolomite lime with crushed shell (blended, fuck it the nutri ninja has taken a beating blending everything else I have put through it), and then add the MgSO4.

Where does the Mg come from the mix of those 2?

From what I can see, neither have it in great quantities (more so tiny amounts) and gypsum can cause the Mg to dilute out as MgSO4 as the Mg replaces the Ca ions in soils (very simplified)... So it is/can be used in soils with excessive Mg. Unless I've read what I read, very wrong?

Sulphur is the main reason I'm adding the gypsum, but then from what I said above (which may or may not have been understood correctly), that can be leached out as MgSO4, gah...
So if there's little Mg actual added in the first place, it seems like a self depleting system?

You're probably right, I'm just going by what I'm understanding when researching Ca/Mg relationship... Probably best to look up the Ca/Ma lock out etc I've seen come up.

Yeah, I'm going to go to the books on this as my interest is peaked. If you'd like to provide some key words to look up, I'll save you the task of explaining it to me lol. Although I'm still a bit puzzled as to where the Mg is coming from with just gypsum/oyster shell

Seeing as the shell has other micros, seems the best option.
See, learning by fucking asking and waiting haha.

Itchy would know a lot more than me but you only need to add what your soil is deficient in. Excessive Magnesium can inhibit uptake of other minerals. Also it makes the soil "stickier" which is good for sandy soil where you are trying to create better structure but not so good for clay soils. We just use straight lime (although the oyster shell sounds better if you have access). I'm a firm believer in humus as the best "fertilizer" as it buffers uptake.

Nutritech can be a bit cult like but they do have some great soil chemistry articles. You might find this one useful. https://blog.nutri-tech.com.au/soil-therapy-guidelines-understanding-your-soil-report-3/

 

[Beil]

Woop, so found kelp meal at another fodder place nearish me , sold as seaweed meal. $14.50/kg.

So just Neem I need to find now

 

[Beil]

So Neem meal/cake does seem like the elusive part locally.
Are people just using it for the bug repellent properties or to add silica?

I can get DE, which will add silica, but it's only effective as a bug barrier when dry, so daily watering will nuke its effect!


Or will copious amounts of rock dust suffice for the micro aspects and just do without the Neem?

Cheers people

 

[Beil]

If I can't get Neem meal (or cba ordering) can I just use DE and the watering system in the photo below as it won't wet all the soil?
I always figured with watering to wet all the soil so that it is all consistently moist and everything is all up and about, but if I were to use DE then it will nuke the DE bug aspects?

Or do these thing act like drippers and within 100mm depth the spread of the water is sufficient.

 

[Beil]

*yeah, I can just see how annoying as fuck I am by scrolling back up my posts*
I'll end up doing what I do, so I guess either ignore me and I'll figure it out, or entertain me and not be annoyed... Either way I'm happy, again, just throwing out any thought I have that's relevant

 

[Pikey]

I've bought Neem Cake (meal) from these guys in the past. $25/5Kg ...spend enough they do free postage, otherwise I think it's ~$10 flate rate.

They've got 25% off until 26/06 with code "JUNE25" so would work out ~$28 for 5Kg delivered. Not the cheapest, but not too bad if you can't find it locally .

 

[Beil]

I've bought Neem Cake (meal) from these guys in the past. $25/5Kg ...spend enough they do free postage, otherwise I think it's ~$10 flate rate.

They've got 25% off until 26/06 with code "JUNE25" so would work out ~$28 for 5Kg delivered. Not the cheapest, but not too bad if you can't find it locally .

So ,$28 doesn't sound too bad.
$150 for free shipping , so might see what else they can do. I'm holding off till after start of July coz we have mine, my wife's and my daughters birthday so it might make sense to free up a few days of my daughters nap time (my free time) in travel !!

 

[VinDeezle]

I

So Neem meal/cake does seem like the elusive part locally.
Are people just using it for the bug repellent properties or to add silica?

I can get DE, which will add silica, but it's only effective as a bug barrier when dry, so daily watering will nuke its effect!


Or will copious amounts of rock dust suffice for the micro aspects and just do without the Neem?

Cheers people

I use Neem for pest control, also find that it ferments well and creates a lot of colonies when I top dress. It's also a rounded fertilizer (around 3-1-1 to 6-1-2 depending on the quote)

 

[Pixie]

So ,$28 doesn't sound too bad.
$150 for free shipping , so might see what else they can do. I'm holding off till after start of July coz we have mine, my wife's and my daughters birthday so it might make sense to free up a few days of my daughters nap time (my free time) in travel !!

Hi Beil I've bought from a mob called Plant Needs. They have free shipping on a lot of their products. The fish bone meal I can recommend and the Neem fertilizer as well

 

[Beil]

Hi Beil I've bought from a mob called Plant Needs. They have free shipping on a lot of their products. The fish bone meal I can recommend and the Neem fertilizer as well

Looking at their website they have a supplier relatively close to my side of the city (out where all the Ag/hydro farmers are) so I'll have a pop in there, they don't have a website, but I'll give them a call and suss them out.
Nice little find there

 

[Beil]

Pays to look around, a place 5 mins from work has seaweed meal at $12/kg, saves me a 45minute round trip from the other place.
Also another fodder place has this shell grit, would I still need to pulverise this some more?
As usual, any advice is appreciated