Soil growers advice please

[Hudo]

That was 3 years ago. So who knows, give it a go and report back please @Hudo

My soil growing experiance isn't good enough to test

 

[itchybro]

Early on TSE I bought bulk soil direct from farm. Rebranded and sold it through the online store.

It was not what it was represented as and unfortunately all the feedback was negative.

I even sold it locally to avid non canna gardeners, based on advice from seller. Again feedback was negative.

I am no soil expert but when I arrive on farm and the seller describes the plumes of his excavator disturbing white (assume lime) as the heat from the break down of the quality inputs..

Well you know.

I think old pugs said it best when he said something like. Where did he dig this shit up from, the side of the road? (He bought a few bags).

i sort of remember this happening , nothing but negative feedback isn't good
i'd have lots of questions because soils like what @Donothing-garden produce are nothing like what you would buy from bunnings off the shelf & it can't be treated in the same way as osmocote for instance but it's old news & no use going back over old ground

The pots are pretty much the same maybe a few Litres diff. It's the one that's closer pic of the leaf (Its alot yellower in the flesh camera doesnt pic it up). There yellow around the edges for a couple days then seem to green up and the new growth keeps the same cycle. It diddnt happen in the hempy pots with coco (these are all clones).it's strange I've never seen it before. Not the yellowing going when the leaf seems to slow down when it gets up to size.

so the yellowing plant is in the slightly bigger pot ?

noticed the yates gnat barrier in the pic , you used the yates on all the pots at yates recommendations ?

 

[Hudo]

i sort of remember this happening , nothing but negative feedback isn't good
i'd have lots of questions because soils like what @Donothing-garden produce are nothing like what you would buy from bunnings off the shelf & it can't be treated in the same way as osmocote for instance but it's old news & no use going back over old ground

so the yellowing plant is in the slightly bigger pot ?

noticed the yates gnat barrier in the pic , you used the yates on all the pots at yates recommendations ?

No the Yates is just on the small pots there is a couple 1L pots in there with seedlings in them. The big pots have just got about an inch of worm castings a thin layer of neem meal a thin layer of bokashi and then mulch and watered with BTI from mosquito dunks. That seems to have deterred them. The plant seems slower than the rest and the bit I don't get is the yellowing slowly dissapears as the leaf gets bigger.

 

[Indy]

We get this great shit locally for $65 a cubic metre. Rich, black, 'n no sand or excessive bark in it. It's basically the base they use for various bagged potting mixes, before it's processed with sand and more bark and bagged up, and sold to suckers..

 

[itchybro]

No the Yates is just on the small pots there is a couple 1L pots in there with seedlings in them. The big pots have just got about an inch of worm castings a thin layer of neem meal a thin layer of bokashi and then mulch and watered with BTI from mosquito dunks. That seems to have deterred them. The plant seems slower than the rest and the bit I don't get is the yellowing slowly dissapears as the leaf gets bigger.

well , could just be an element that is a little high & young leaves show it but grow out of it
over doing it is easy to do , for example we put kelp meal in a mix for many other reasons other than adding nitrogen but your adding to the nitrogen content of a mix when you add it , even if it's only in a small way = lots of small amounts can add up

if the plant seems healthy in every other way i'd let it be & just keep an eye on it , if you have some homemade castings make a compost extract , which is easy to do & water that in the next time the pot needs water

i asked about pot size & the yates gnat stuff because even though the bigger pot is only slightly bigger , if you add the gnat barrier to yates recommendations , which will retain moisture , then treat the bigger pot water wise ( when you water ) the same as you treat the smaller pots , the chance of over watering could be possible = slight over watering won't always show with droopy leaves , you do have the odd leaflet with the end down turned which in general is usually environmental from my understanding

We get this great shit locally for $65 a cubic metre. Rich, black, 'n no sand or excessive bark in it. It's basically the base they use for various bagged potting mixes, before it's processed with sand and more bark and bagged up, and sold to suckers..

if you think its cool to ask without pissing anyone off @Indy , ask what go's into making this rich black stuff because anytime someone puts lots of effort into making good compost it usually never sold that cheaply

 

[Indy]

Primarily Green wastes, Cane Mulch, and Bagasse from what i've seen. They chirn it in over in rows every so often, then it its ready to shift after 6-9 months i think. I'm guessing the Bagasse helps accelerate it in breaking down.

Here's a aerial photo of the one of the 'yards around here.

 

[itchybro]

looks cool , lots of windrows
yes you need to get the carbon to nitrogen ratio close to being correct so you have a finished product sooner than later , you generally need twice as much carbon ( Cane Mulch / Bagasse ) as you do nitrogen ( green waste )

 

[Indy]

Cool, that's a pretty small operation that one pictured, considering the others around here.

Only thing we add to it is this as a top layer, rake it in, then mulch.

EDIT: Well, we do break the ground and turn it in with a rotary hoe, then top dress, rake 'n mulch. Then try to fertilise and mulch annually. Doesn't always turn out like that though.

 

[Donothing-garden]

Primarily Green wastes, Cane Mulch, and Bagasse from what i've seen. They chirn it in over in rows every so often, then it its ready to shift after 6-9 months i think. I'm guessing the Bagasse helps accelerate it in breaking down.

Here's a aerial photo of the one of the 'yards around here.
View attachment 34625

I'd be really weary of compost made with sugar cane as an input. One of the most chemical treated crops around, including glyphosate at end of cycle to kill and harvest. Stay away from sugar cane mulch as well for this reason.

 

[Indy]

I'd be really weary of compost made with sugar cane as an input. One of the most chemical treated crops around, including glyphosate at end of cycle to kill and harvest. Stay away from sugar cane mulch as well for this reason.

LOL, i was waiting for it.

 

[Indy]

including glyphosate at end of cycle to kill and harvest.

This is a big claim. Who has evidence of this?

 

[itchybro]

i think you'll find it's approved for use as weed control in oz as well as a ripening agent among other things @Indy

from the CSIRO
Ripening in sugarcane refers to an increase in sugar content on a fresh weight basis before commercial harvest. Certain chemicals are applied to cane in commercial fields in some countries to accelerate ripening and improve profitability of sugar production. However, responses have usually been reported to be variety and environment specific. We examined changes in the sucrose content in the juice extracted from 43 Australian sugarcane (Saccharum spp. hybrid) varieties in response to 4 ripener treatments in the Burdekin region in northern Queensland over 2 years. The 4 treatments applied were ethephon (as Ethrel®) + fluazifop-P butyl (as Fusilade®), Fusilade® alone, glyphosate (as Weedmaster® Duo), and haloxyfop-R methyl (as Verdict®).

 

[Indy]

That's a field test the CSIRO conducted, lol. It's not a practice within the industry that's widespread.

A couple of cane growers i know do bugger all in prep for harvest. All they do is back off the irrigation about a month before harvest and hope it doesn't rain. That way the sugar concentration rises within the cane. Then once harvested, they get the irrigator's back onto it, for the next crop*. They will use a combo of glyphosate and gramoxone for "spot spraying" within the cane when it's about 3ft tall, once the cane grows higher than that most weeds can't compete any longer.

The reason they use a combo, is because gylphosate on it's own is too bloody expensive.

* and if it is used within the industry as a ripening agent it's obviously not in concentration that it will render the plant dead, because a farmer hopes he can get a handful of seasons out of a crop, before it needs to be turned in and planted out with peanuts or similar to bring the nitrogen levels, etc.. back up in the soil when turned in after harvest.

 

[itchybro]

i think it's use is pretty wide spread @Indy as well as it's use being hotly debated

this from the guardian https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/14/australian-farmers-body-says-roundup-cancer-ruling-is-in-blatant-ignorance-of-science#:~:text=4%20years%20old-,Australian%20farmers%20body%20says%20Roundup%20cancer%20ruling,in%20blatant%20ignorance'%20of%20science&text=Australia's%20National%20Farmers'%20Federation%20has,precedent%E2%80%9D%20that%20could%20harm%20agriculture. in that article Australia’s National Farmers are defending the use of it

unfortunately you need to subscribe to read this , North Queensland Register article " Australian growers defend the use of glyphosate " https://www.northqueenslandregister.com.au/story/5689560/growers-defend-the-use-of-glyphosate/

australian institute of health & safety (aihs)
Local councils around Australia are banning the use of glyphosate, phasing it out or conducting reviews of its use because of health and safety concerns about workers who have suffered extensive exposure to the herbicide which has been linked to non-Hodgkin lymphoma.

Councils which have banned glyphosate range from Cook Shire Council in far north Queensland, through to Fairfield City Council and Georges River Council in NSW, down to Moyne Shire and Warrnambool City Council in Victoria.

 

[Donothing-garden]

This is a big claim. Who has evidence of this?

Common practice, not some kind of secret.
Here's the first thing I found on Google.

The Use of Glyphosate in Sugarcane: A Brazilian Experience

Open access peer-reviewed chapter

www.intechopen.com

 

[Donothing-garden]

https://www.lsuagcenter.com/articles/page1595613262956

 

[Indy]

Common practice, not some kind of secret.
Here's the first thing I found on Google.

The Use of Glyphosate in Sugarcane: A Brazilian Experience

Open access peer-reviewed chapter

www.intechopen.com

https://www.lsuagcenter.com/articles/page1595613262956

So the Australian Cane industry standards are based on Brazilian and American Practices?

 

[Indy]

i think it's use is pretty wide spread @Indy as well as it's use being hotly debated

this from the guardian https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/14/australian-farmers-body-says-roundup-cancer-ruling-is-in-blatant-ignorance-of-science#:~:text=4%20years%20old-,Australian%20farmers%20body%20says%20Roundup%20cancer%20ruling,in%20blatant%20ignorance'%20of%20science&text=Australia's%20National%20Farmers'%20Federation%20has,precedent%E2%80%9D%20that%20could%20harm%20agriculture. in that article Australia’s National Farmers are defending the use of it

Don't see no mention of Cane Farmers

unfortunately you need to subscribe to read this , North Queensland Register article " Australian growers defend the use of glyphosate " https://www.northqueenslandregister.com.au/story/5689560/growers-defend-the-use-of-glyphosate/

Pointless link unless someone can get behind the paywall

australian institute of health & safety (aihs)
Local councils around Australia are banning the use of glyphosate, phasing it out or conducting reviews of its use because of health and safety concerns about workers who have suffered extensive exposure to the herbicide which has been linked to non-Hodgkin lymphoma.

Councils which have banned glyphosate range from Cook Shire Council in far north Queensland, through to Fairfield City Council and Georges River Council in NSW, down to Moyne Shire and Warrnambool City Council in Victoria.

And it's no secret about the science now coming out now about gylphosate. I'm not defending it. It is what it is.

My issue is with dumbarse statements like this that lacks any truth.

including glyphosate at end of cycle to kill and harvest.

 

[Harry bootlace]

My father used to work for the department of agriculture and he told me of a time when a bunch of suits came and did a talk on roundup and how safe it was. They ended the talk by drinking a shot of it each.

 

[Harry bootlace]

My father used to work for the department of agriculture and he told me of a time when a bunch of suits came and did a talk on roundup and how safe it was. They ended the talk by drinking a shot of it each.

Not recommending it myself