Jumping in

[DV8]

Hey all.

DV8s the name, Porky suggested I drop by some time ago, finally got around to it. (Site owners probably owe him at least a beer poaching me by pushing TSE wheelbarrow for you).

Recommended here as an Aussie based forum, so Ive come for a look.

So before I settle in, I guess I better give the relevant details.

Based in Vic. Currently have a couple autos and cpl new photo seedlings going.

Know a few things about growing but always learning. Most of my growing has been outdoors. Jumped back in a couple years ago helping out a mate.

Got all the gear for running indoors, just waiting on space to set it up.

Love a good laugh, and do not take myself too seriously, but willing to help out where I can.

Hopefully theres good vibes here, some entertainment, and grow info.

Any questions feel free to ask away.

Cheers for having me.

And before I jump in, can we mention brands around here or is there supporters of the site that wouldnt appreciate it?.

 

[puggle6]

Welcome, and thanks to both you and Porky for watering down the TSE gene pool even further

Doubt Bill would buy him a beer, more like throw darts at him with the rest of us.

At least you are in Vic

 

[Kee Mao]

Sawatdee khrap
Welcome DV8 you’re amongst friends

 

[Porky]

Hey all.

DV8s the name, Porky suggested I drop by some time ago, finally got around to it. (Site owners probably owe him at least a beer poaching me by pushing TSE wheelbarrow for you).

Recommended here as an Aussie based forum, so Ive come for a look.

So before I settle in, I guess I better give the relevant details.

Based in Vic. Currently have a couple autos and cpl new photo seedlings going.

Know a few things about growing but always learning. Most of my growing has been outdoors. Jumped back in a couple years ago helping out a mate.

Got all the gear for running indoors, just waiting on space to set it up.

Love a good laugh, and do not take myself too seriously, but willing to help out where I can.

Hopefully theres good vibes here, some entertainment, and grow info.

Any questions feel free to ask away.

Cheers for having me.

And before I jump in, can we mention brands around here or is there supporters of the site that wouldnt appreciate it?.

Hay mate mention anything ya like on here!!

I'll mention the bloke in the 2nd post is a dickhead often!!
He thinks he's a lot better than he is!
Won't take ya long to find ya way round here mate!
Not as busy as the yank forums but a lot funnier!!

 

[DV8]

Cheers guys.

No worries Porky. Thanks for letting me know.

As chance would have it, old mate who makes Easy As Organics is on here.

That alone has been worth stopping by.

Mostly because Im a pissed off customer. Im pretty laid back but its been a long time since I felt so ripped off. At best its suitable as an additive, but complte mix.....blokes having a lend.

Thank fuck I didnt test it with my girls. Give him a shot to explain himself, ready to place it in an area he'd find very uncomfortable though.

In better news been cruising around, seems like a good fit.

Link to current grow.

Auto grow

 

[Sedge]

Welcome to TSE DV8

 

[Aye Shroomer]

Welcome mate

 

[itchybro]

Cheers guys.

No worries Porky. Thanks for letting me know.

As chance would have it, old mate who makes Easy As Organics is on here.

That alone has been worth stopping by.

Mostly because Im a pissed off customer. Im pretty laid back but its been a long time since I felt so ripped off. At best its suitable as an additive, but complte mix.....blokes having a lend.

Thank fuck I didnt test it with my girls. Give him a shot to explain himself, ready to place it in an area he'd find very uncomfortable though.

In better news been cruising around, seems like a good fit.

Link to current grow.

Auto grow

hey DV8
Welcome

what happened with your easy as organics soil ?

 

[DV8]

hey DV8
Welcome

what happened with your easy as organics soil ?

Two things mainly that made me unhappy.

First, the soil bogs up even with minimal water. Not to run off or anything crazy against their advice.

When watered soil should be friable, and have good air exchange.

Easy as is not either of those.

And the settlement is ungodly. Say 25%.

If they claim ' Ready to use' there should be no need to add perlite, peat etc. Which would fix the problem.

Canna needs good exchange, and so do most vegetables which is what I used it for in my trial run.

Secondly, its full, like throughout the mix, of hard stone. I am baffled at what they could be. Certainly not a beneficial grow material. Filler, and fkn expensive filler at that.

If that wasnt bad enough, at premium prices, all, and I mean all, of my tomatoes are suffering an N deficiency.

The only ones that arent are in my recycled soil mixes from my outdoors run last year.

That soil has sustained blueberries, strawberries, pineberries, zucchini, and household plants since being recycled, all thriving.

The kicker is my soil suffered an N def for late flower, so god knows why the claim of ' balanced nutrient ratios' is trotted out as fact.

I cant test it, its the retailers responsibility, but I can tell you what I see. Not enough N.

Its overpriced and underperforming.

I dont even want a refund on the 4 bags. Theres enough general planting to be done Ill use it, but at like 10% ratio on my own mix.

Seriously underwhelming for what is claimed to be a premixed complete canna medium.

Id be shocked if they did any canna grows themselves. If they did they would see how unsuitable it is straight out the bag.

Others may have found differently, but I can say Im the first to champion a good product, and not prone to talking shit.

But I struggle to find anything good to say about it especially given the price.

 

[Sedge]

Yeah it’s dear alright,,but I think your expected to spend more on top dressing to make it last..otherwise an auto will barely make it through before its deficient.
I saw some in a hydro shop the guy saying put your plant in and just water…lol..
so my guess he has a lot of customers feeling the same as you.

 

[itchybro]

it's a shame you had problems with it DV8 , this has not been my experience using his soil mix
have you done allot of growing utilizing the soil food web ?

i personally haven't been able to grow for a little while now which has been hard to not do something you love but that'll change soon
so unless his mix has changed some what from my last use of it I'll assume it's roughly still the same

it's great that you tested it first on veg b4 using it on a more important crop , so thumbs up for that mate , we all should do this more often when trying new things , utilizing the sacrificial lamb so to speak

as far as the soil " bogs up " go's this sounds like 2 much water , i get you don't feel you did this but it's what it sounds like when using a living type soil mix or coots type mix as some might know it as , there are other signs of your water probs in what you say as well

it's possible with this type of soil mix there was already enough moisture in the bag to start with , a lite spray might have been all it needed at transplant , most would be surprised at how little water plants & soil organisms need to survive & flourish

of cause as a root system increases so does water usage but it's still not what most growers think or do when it comes to adding water , the guys on here are def sick of me banging on about water usage but it's the number one problem plants face when we humans are in control , the flow on effect is never good , pest or pathogen attack , nutrient deficiencies can all come from water
2 much or 2 little

the " 25% settlement " I'm assuming you mean when you fill a pot with soil it drops in level by 25% once you watered , if that's the case then that's another sign to me at least of 2 much water

I've def never added any peat or perlite to his mix or any mix for that matter , i figure most manufactures big or small will hit air filled porosity targets of there soil mix , even the cheap bagged ones

added to soil mixes like this , scoria or lava rock as some call it is used for aeration , it's used because it's full of holes which give homes to microorganisms to live in , it's not light so it won't float to the top like perlite although when lots of top water is added it can wash off other lighter elements at the top of the mix away from the stone leaving you with quite a few stones on top , scoria will help retain moisture & because these mixes are used over & over the stone won't collapse to dust like perlite will with continuous use , there are pros & cons with most things , the weight of scoria increases shipping costs , you could replace it with rice hulls which work well as aeration , a good lignin food source for fungi & are full of silica but will eventually be consumed in the mix , like i said pros & cons , imo scoria is more beneficial than not , there are definitely other aeration choices though

N deficiency is another sign of to much water , to much or to constant water displaces air & anaerobic organisms take control of the media , changing PH causing lockouts like nitrogen & many others elements

the air we breath is mostly nitrogen so there are many nitrogen fixing bacteria in soil & we use way to much manures in soil which gives you lots of lush green growth but the downside to that lush green growth is thinner cell walls making the plant much more susceptible to insects like aphid , in fact aphid are very much attracted to nitrogen abundant plants for that thin cell wall reason = easier to chew

towards the end of flower there is a decease in the need of water with canna , not no water just a decease in water , i use blumats & use the blumat moisture meter , in veg moisture levels required is around 100 to 120 millibars & in mid to late flower that deceases to 120 to 150 millibars , the lower the number the more water & higher the number the less water
if you continue to add as much water as the beginning of flower you can run the aerobic conditions risk as mentioned earlier

I'll assume with 4 bags = 100lts ( some used for tomato plant testing ) you were using smaller pots which is very difficult to get the water right on , the soil will often be dry on top & pull away from the sides of the pot while still wet down lower , bigger pots or larger volumes of soil don't fluctuate as quick & stay allot more stable moisture wise

easy as wouldn't do any canna grows because he wouldn't want to risk his business by getting busted but a plant is a plant & although each plant might like one thing more or less than the next plant it's generally not that different that you would need a complete different mix when we're talking vegetables Vs canna , if we were talking succulents Vs canna then that would be different but in general if a tomato grows well in a soil mix canna should be pretty much the same

for many years I've sourced allot of soil amendments & mixed my own potting soils & if you want what easy as is making i can def say it ain't cheap , could you make it cheaper with all the same amendments ? Yes you could , but when you add the lab testing , the organic certification & the need to mix allot bigger volumes that you & i would mix , plus running a business / employees rent , phone , tax , etc etc the price is understandable , like you I'd rather not pay $55 for a 25lt bag but if i was to add my own labor cost to mix & source the ingredients it's not that much different in price , that's why i stopped mixing & started buying , keeping in mind these mixes are being reused & although there was a larger start up cost there was no need for that same cost again each grow

I'm not a employee of easy as I'm just a fan of organic soil growing that hates seeing people have bad experiences with a method that should grow you some of the best cannabis without the need of bottled nutrients

sorry for the long winded reply

 

[afghan bob]

Once again, explained in a manner that even idiots like me can understand

A true champion of the cause

 

[DV8]

sorry for the long winded reply

Hey Itchybro,

Look mate thats 100% understandable.

I appreciate you took the time to reply.

Old dog new tricks perhaps?

Ive taken on board what youve said, and have a few thoughts.

If someone who believes they are able to use the product successfully comes and chimes in to say as much, Im humble enough to listen.

I reckon the best thing for me to do is use your threshold to guide me on the appropriate amount of moisture for this mix.

For the most part Ive used products that are much more forgiving. Not that targeted and measured watering isnt something I feel comfortable with, theres still a distinct possibility Ive overwatered this product.

As for the rocks I understand the purpose of scoria, and perhaps the rocks are indeed scoria.

Certainly didnt look like it, tomorrow Ill wash and seperate to check. I eyeballed a few and scratched my head. We used it in a midsize tomato operation in hothouses as part of the grow medium for the hydroponics. They were fed a diluted chelated mix, but it met the aeration targets required.

Everything being equal might be my mistakes in use. Given the pitfalls, a proper guide should be provided.

I was hoping to use it for what I got the impression it was for, outdoors guerrilla grow. Its definitely not going to be suitable for that.

The rest of the info is good info mate. I dont just want to grow the best canna I can, but the best plants possible. Gardener first, grower second.

Ill have a tinker tomorrow with the remainder of the mix on hand and see if I cant figure out how its to be used better given your input.

That said Id want to see a huge difference in results, otherwise Ill just default back to my own preferences in content and inputs.

As youve rightly noted, its expensive, requires some cash to achieve the result, but I want every dollar to count. At this point $200 could have been better spent on remote watering, genetics, or environmental control such as heating for greenhouse.

 

[Billygoat]

I was hoping to use it for what I got the impression it was for, outdoors guerrilla grow.

Hey DV8.

What would give this impression?

 

[DV8]

Probably best to point at their sales pitch.

When they say just add water and no need to ph it.

Call me stupid, but that seems like it should be something given enough regular waterings that would sustain a complete outdoors grow.

Last year I trekked in twice weekly for my grow to add chelated mix on top of automated watering and it nearly killed me. Was hoping to get that down to once a month for flowering plants in a fenced off area.

For now Ill go plan B, slow release nutrients and less plants.

 

[Billygoat]

Sounds like you should start selling your superior mix Some details would be useful.

 

[DV8]

Sounds like you should start selling your superior mix Some details would be useful.

Didn't mean to give that impression. What I know about growing, media, is nothing to get anyone excited about.

Last grow outdoors was just using a pretty simple mix. Perlite, a bit of seed raising mix, some peat, and worm castings with some aged garden manure I had ammended with manures and castings.

Started from advice given by guys that grew good plants who suggested castings/peat/perlite at roughly equal amounts with some ammendments.

Honestly I probably fucked up, which is a lesson I learnt the hard way, using coir based castings, not to mention flogging the girls when I mixed a feed up almost totalling two of them at about 5 times the strength.

Only serves as due cause to place the blame on me for poor results this time using Easy as, maybe the shortcomings are mine. If that wasnt clear before, hopefully it is now.

 

[itchybro]

you should do what makes you feel comfortable but one of the main reasons for using this type of soil is the biology or life in it

very important to not mix methodologies , bottle feeding with bunnings brought bagged potting soil works because the potting soil most of the time is a soiless media , sort of like a hybrid between hydro system & soil system , this is not what an easy as soil mix is or tries to be

your basically treating the soil as a pet , you might have heard the phrase " feed the soil not the plant " 90% of what a plant
consumes comes from bacteria or fungi eating organic matter or each other & shitting out plant available nutrients
while the plant spits out sugars through it's root system to attract the appropriate organism so the plant gets a desired nutrient

a term I'm sure you've heard " Symbiotic " , i feed you & you feed me , the plant becomes a food source for organisms & because the plant is feeding these organisms , the organisms will protect there food source hence plant protection against pest & disease

we are relying on the beneficial's out competeing the bad guys , the plant is in control , if pest or pathogen try to move in the plant wiill change up the sugars it excretes to attract a more appropriate defender , all this plant control & organization pretty much is where nutrient density comes from & nutrient density is the bases of higher yield , terpene & cannabinoids

so all those little microscopic critters in the soil described as " The Soil Food Web " is where " the shit " is at , grow & look after these micro fuckers , as well as worms & other soil life & they'll produce for you in more ways then one

btw the 3 equal part soil mix you mentioned above is basically what a coots mix is , 1/3 Peat , 1/3 air & 1/3 castings or compost
peat = water , perlite = air , castings = nutrients & organisms & added amendments ( organic matter ) to feed those organisms which ultimately feed the plant ( plant available nutrients )

all of that only works well with the appropriate amount of lubricant = Water

as a rule of thumb , only add 10% water based on volume of soil , 100lts of soil add no more than 10lts of water
don't want to see runoff or at least very minimal runoff & water slowly don't dump a bucketof water on top
you can use a pump wand sprayer with the spray head taken off , water in a liter & walk away for 5min come back
& water in another liter , this kind of soil mix will wick the water round the pot easily & i find when you do that you
sometimes get runoff before you get to the 10% mark , like 7 or 8% , keep an eye on the runoff cause it will often
wick back into the pot

 

[DV8]

Obviously you understand all this pretty well itchybro, and thanks for taking the time to describe in easy to read terms.

No easy task to take all of that and condense it down to lay it out so simply.

as a rule of thumb , only add 10% water based on volume of soil , 100lts of soil add no more than 10lts of water
don't want to see runoff or at least very minimal runoff & water slowly don't dump a bucketof water on top
you can use a pump wand sprayer with the spray head taken off , water in a liter & walk away for 5min come back
& water in another liter , this kind of soil mix will wick the water round the pot easily & i find when you do that you
sometimes get runoff before you get to the 10% mark , like 7 or 8% , keep an eye on the runoff cause it will often
wick back into the pot

Cheers mate. Last season I used pots with holes drilled, like a poor mans airpot. So your methodology makes sense 100%.

Got some grow bags thrown in on a tent deal over winter, was going to try those too in the greenhouse and tent.

I assume the concept of the wicking back up of runoff will be fine with those too?

10% max. Try my best to keep it in that range. Its less than Id be used to on a wet/dry cycle but now youve laid it all out this might be exactly why I had N def issues from mid grow.

 

[DV8]

Sounds like you should start selling your superior mix Some details would be useful.

I think pics might help.

Side by side planted at the same time, from the same punnet. Sure theres variables but this might make things clearer.

I even tried bands.

This was a bigger one but shows the root development and friability I was looking for from Easy as.