Jumping in

[Kee Mao]

Even when I don’t want too,I learn shit. Good work @itchybro

 

[Porky]

Probably best to point at their sales pitch. View attachment 26169

When they say just add water and no need to ph it.

Call me stupid, but that seems like it should be something given enough regular waterings that would sustain a complete outdoors grow.

Last year I trekked in twice weekly for my grow to add chelated mix on top of automated watering and it nearly killed me. Was hoping to get that down to once a month for flowering plants in a fenced off area.

For now Ill go plan B, slow release nutrients and less plants.

I find it amusing that he claims his soil will increase the flavour and smell!!
Flavour and smell is determined by the genetics of the plant not the medium its grown in!!
I have used his soil in a mix with other soil I had made and had good results but I couldn't say that's from his soil alone.
He claims to have sent samples to the US to be tested and that it is a specific blend designed especially for cannabis growth!!

 

[itchybro]

that's cool mate that root development looks really good

very hard to tell from pics but what i notice with them is the soil " looks " drier with the better developed roots
but really hard to tell without feeling the weight & touching the soil , but that's def the kind of root development
you want for sure

2 things , imo don't do layers makes things worse not better i reckon , if you want to add stuff then completely mix it in & do your due diligence testing b4 putting into your system , i understand in the case above you were trying to solve what you saw as a problem , in general though potting mix layering can create more problems than it can solve

secondly , don't have wet / dry periods , much better to have a consistent moisture , more in the goldilocks range , not ringing wet & not totally dry , this will keep the soil life happier & you'll get much more constant root growth only limited by the pot size

those felt grow bags are OK & should let the runoff wick back into the pot , they aren't quite the same as the grassroots fabric pots , i believe the material to be different & the roots don't grow through the felt to air prune like the material used with the more expensive grassroots pots , not positive on that cause I've never used those felt grow bags

container gardening is container gardening it's not a natural environment for a plant to be in anyway , we just gotta try & make it work , one of those ways is using larger volumes of soil / bigger pots , main reason is to try & maintain that goldilocks moisture level like it would in the ground , having a mulch layer will help minimize evaporation & feed soil life or having a low growing ground cover living mulch that will do similar with soil evaporation but also add to the soil life because all plants attract & feed organisms through there root systems = more diversity plant wise will add more diversity organism wise

porky's right a plant can only achieve it's genetic potential but i think you'll get closer to achieving a plants genetic potential with a living soil than you would with a $12 bag of crap from bunnings , in saying that nutrient choice can influence a plants outcome for better or worse , like i mentioned earlier lots of N will give you lots of lush green growth & at the same time that lush green growth caused by abundant N can attract allot more pests

 

[DV8]

that's cool mate that root development looks really good

very hard to tell from pics but what i notice with them is the soil " looks " drier with the better developed roots
but really hard to tell without feeling the weight & touching the soil , but that's def the kind of root development
you want for sure

It is drier, for sure. The separation and aeration qualities in the recycled mix are greater than EAO.

That was my concern, bogging up. Lower aeration values, greater moisture retention, and heat exchange.

2 things , imo don't do layers makes things worse not better i reckon , if you want to add stuff then completely mix it in & do your due diligence testing b4 putting into your system ,

Thats good advice, this one was a test case to see how it settled, a comparison. When this testing began I didnt do blending. I felt this was the fairest way to compare.

i understand in the case above you were trying to solve what you saw as a problem , in general though potting mix layering can create more problems than it can solve

In agreement there mate.

secondly , don't have wet / dry periods , much better to have a consistent moisture , more in the goldilocks range , not ringing wet & not totally dry , this will keep the soil life happier & you'll get much more constant root growth only limited by the pot size

The terms Ive used probably confusing. You are spot on mate, consistent levels of moisture are much better. To clarify I meant the drifting between threshold, or band, from too little moisture to recently watered.

those felt grow bags are OK & should let the runoff wick back into the pot , they aren't quite the same as the grassroots fabric pots , i believe the material to be different & the roots don't grow through the felt to air prune like the material used with the more expensive grassroots pots , not positive on that cause I've never used those felt grow bags.

Thanks mate.

container gardening is container gardening it's not a natural environment for a plant to be in anyway , we just gotta try & make it work , one of those ways is using larger volumes of soil / bigger pots , main reason is to try & maintain that goldilocks moisture level like it would in the ground , having a mulch layer will help minimize evaporation & feed soil life or having a low growing ground cover living mulch that will do similar with soil evaporation but also add to the soil life because all plants attract & feed organisms through there root systems = more diversity plant wise will add more diversity organism wise

Any you would recommend?

porky's right a plant can only achieve it's genetic potential but i think you'll get closer to achieving a plants genetic potential with a living soil than you would with a $12 bag of crap from bunnings , in saying that nutrient choice can influence a plants outcome for better or worse , like i mentioned earlier lots of N will give you lots of lush green growth & at the same time that lush green growth caused by abundant N can attract allot more pests

Interesting. Ive always thought about in terms of plant health. The healthier the plant the less likely the chance of disease and pests.

I would say in canna growing spidermites and aphids tend toward the plants that are less vigorous first.

Have I got that arse about? Im working from what Ive seen, and anecdotal reporting, which isnt facts.

Is there a particular pest or reason that N abundant plants are more susceptible?

 

[itchybro]

pots i would recommend would be those grassroots ones because they have been used by canna growers using a living soil type setup & from the growers feedback the company modified the original pots by adding a plastic liner to the sides , why ?

it's my understanding it's another one of those pros & cons deal , by adding the plastic you effectively turn the sides of the pot into a normal plastic pot , the roots hit the side & head downward exposing them to the warmer sides of the pot rather than the roots growing through the fabric & air pruning which means only the tips of the roots are exposed to more heat

the downside to no plastic sides meant the soil on the sides of the pot would dry a little quicker & once peat drys it go's hydrophobic & is very difficult to re hydrate , in the pot , because peat is a shocker for that & any water you pour on just rolls out the side of the fabric only pots , adding the plastic help to combat that & help keep the goldilocks moisture level mentioned b4

as far as size go's bigger the better imo , if you can handle it , pots no smaller than 75lts & if you have to go smaller I'd prob go to full plastic pots & live with knowing the roots will be circling the bottom of the pot

another factor in pot selection is time frame , how long do you expect the plant to be in the pot ?
if you plant or transplant at the end of September in Melbourne & expect to harvest 7 or 8 months later in April or May , that's a long time for a plant to be in a 50lt pot & to expect to be a water only deal

what you can do is start much later in the season indoors under about 15:30 hrs of light , this light schedule matches the longest day 22 December complete with added civil twilight time of around 45min , around the 22nd to new years you transplant outdoors in a 50lt pot , this leaves the plant in a 50lt pot for 4 or 5 months which is a little better than 7 or 8

if you know the cultivar your growing it makes it easier to workout timing of when you need to start & when you need to transplant , if the cultivar is more indi dom & minimal stretch than you might start a little earlier & transplant a bigger plant a little earlier , if your growing a more sati dom with a large stretch than you can start later & transplant a smaller plant later

but in general i would always choose a bigger pot / larger soil volume , hope all that makes sense

Sunrise & sunset times https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/australia/melbourne?month=12&year=2022 enter in your town to check your area

as far as plant health go's , yes yes & double yes , the healthier the plant the less susceptible to pest & disease , i haven't noticed the less vigorous plants get attacked more but i have noticed the less vigorous plants could be the more unhealthy plants & there for targeted more by pest or disease , the same cultivar in the same soil in the same sized pot doesn't always = the same health unfortunately

pests will target a plant with abundant nitrates because the growth you get from lots of N can stretch & thin out plant cell walls making it much easier for chewing & sucking insects to get in for a feed & setup a make babies shop , that's my understanding anyway

 

[pug]

hard to add much to itchy's words ... they are the word .... hehehe

as to pots ... i'm using the grassroots fabric pots at the moment and what itchy said is spot on. imo there is one pot that i reckon has been better to grow canna (more even moisture distribution), but it has pros and cons too. they're called roottrapper pots and have been around for a while in the usa - mainly used by nurseries. but unlike the grassroots pots, i dont think anyone sells them locally. they have a barrier on the outside (not on the inside like the grassroots) of the pot and still allow for root pruning on the inside.

another downside though, is that they smell a tad, which is always a worry with plastic. goes away in a short time, but left me wondering what toxins might be escaping. this last point, made me change pots to a wood planter and now to the grassroot pots.

 

[DV8]

Thanks for recommendations guys.

 

[Donothing-garden]

I find it amusing that he claims his soil will increase the flavour and smell!!
Flavour and smell is determined by the genetics of the plant not the medium its grown in!!
I have used his soil in a mix with other soil I had made and had good results but I couldn't say that's from his soil alone.
He claims to have sent samples to the US to be tested and that it is a specific blend designed especially for cannabis growth!!

The lab results are on the website.

 

[Donothing-garden]

Cheers guys.

No worries Porky. Thanks for letting me know.

As chance would have it, old mate who makes Easy As Organics is on here.

That alone has been worth stopping by.

Mostly because Im a pissed off customer. Im pretty laid back but its been a long time since I felt so ripped off. At best its suitable as an additive, but complte mix.....blokes having a lend.

Thank fuck I didnt test it with my girls. Give him a shot to explain himself, ready to place it in an area he'd find very uncomfortable though.

In better news been cruising around, seems like a good fit.

Link to current grow.

Auto grow

Hey man, I appreciate the feedback and sorry for the poor experience you've had. Feel free to reach out directly with any questions. I do spend time with anyone that wants to chat.

Re. Air porosity, it could take a bit to get used to as it really doesn't need much water, maybe only 4% total soil volume. It's easy to overwater, especially in cold conditions.

I've updated the blend again and it now contains wood fibre as a portion of the aeration. 25% lighter, lower bulk density and much higher wettability, less tendency for hydrophobic conditions etc. Had good germination rates and seedling health too.

Regarding testing and nutrient targets, not sure why I keep getting challenged on that, I send samples to Logan Labs for analysis, amend to hit cannabis targets. Standard practice. Check out the lab results on the EAO LS page.

DV8: happy to send some freebies your way, and any other advice to help you on your way. -Matt

 

[Donothing-garden]

I find it amusing that he claims his soil will increase the flavour and smell!!
Flavour and smell is determined by the genetics of the plant not the medium its grown in!!
I have used his soil in a mix with other soil I had made and had good results but I couldn't say that's from his soil alone.
He claims to have sent samples to the US to be tested and that it is a specific blend designed especially for cannabis growth!!

That is a silly claim from a few years ago that all living soil growers would attest to, not just "my" living soil but canna grown organically in general produces more terpenes.

 

[Donothing-garden]

That is a silly claim from a few years ago that all living soil growers would attest to, not just "my" living soil but canna grown organically in general produces more terpenes.

It was also written a few years ago when I was entering a market dominated by synthetic nutrient bottles and sterile media so I wanted to clearly point out the point of difference. Don't mean to mislead. And yeah obviously your genetics is the biggest limiting factor here.

 

[puggle6]

It was also written a few years ago when I was entering a market dominated by synthetic nutrient bottles and sterile media so I wanted to clearly point out the point of difference. Don't mean to mislead. And yeah obviously your genetics is the biggest limiting factor here.

Porkys biggest limiting factor is "competence"

 

[Porky]

That is a silly claim from a few years ago that all living soil growers would attest to, not just "my" living soil but canna grown organically in general produces more terpenes.

Anything actually scientific to support the claims??
I'm genuinely interested if any research has been done!!
I've tasted great weed grown in all mediums and tasted bad weed grow in all mediums!!

 

[Porky]

Porkys biggest limiting factor is "competence"

Cunt I've grown more plants in soil than you will in ya entire pathetic life!!
Have a entire album on here with pics of em!
Show us some pics of your soil grown plants. All 2 of em!!

 

[Donothing-garden]

When watered right, it works great. But I'll be the first to admit that the soils tolerance for overwatering is very low. It's the main negative feedback I've had. Works great when watered well but will cause nutrient translocation issues when overwatered which is super easy when cold. I've worked pretty hard over the last year to try this new input to increase air porosity while maintaining a nice organic media that doesn't have perlite. All my batches going forward are blended with horticultural wood fibre... Mechanically extruded/heat treated fibrous pine substrate. I've cut down on scoria significantly. So it helps with structure and drainage but the wood fibre helps with porosity, carbon, higher drought and overwatering tolerance, lighter soil is easier to lift and move, and early starts can establish roots a little easier. It's what I've found so far. I can share some lab results soon when I get them. Current lab results are on my website and always have been.

 

[Donothing-garden]

pots i would recommend would be those grassroots ones because they have been used by canna growers using a living soil type setup & from the growers feedback the company modified the original pots by adding a plastic liner to the sides , why ?

it's my understanding it's another one of those pros & cons deal , by adding the plastic you effectively turn the sides of the pot into a normal plastic pot , the roots hit the side & head downward exposing them to the warmer sides of the pot rather than the roots growing through the fabric & air pruning which means only the tips of the roots are exposed to more heat

the downside to no plastic sides meant the soil on the sides of the pot would dry a little quicker & once peat drys it go's hydrophobic & is very difficult to re hydrate , in the pot , because peat is a shocker for that & any water you pour on just rolls out the side of the fabric only pots , adding the plastic help to combat that & help keep the goldilocks moisture level mentioned b4

as far as size go's bigger the better imo , if you can handle it , pots no smaller than 75lts & if you have to go smaller I'd prob go to full plastic pots & live with knowing the roots will be circling the bottom of the pot

another factor in pot selection is time frame , how long do you expect the plant to be in the pot ?
if you plant or transplant at the end of September in Melbourne & expect to harvest 7 or 8 months later in April or May , that's a long time for a plant to be in a 50lt pot & to expect to be a water only deal

what you can do is start much later in the season indoors under about 15:30 hrs of light , this light schedule matches the longest day 22 December complete with added civil twilight time of around 45min , around the 22nd to new years you transplant outdoors in a 50lt pot , this leaves the plant in a 50lt pot for 4 or 5 months which is a little better than 7 or 8

if you know the cultivar your growing it makes it easier to workout timing of when you need to start & when you need to transplant , if the cultivar is more indi dom & minimal stretch than you might start a little earlier & transplant a bigger plant a little earlier , if your growing a more sati dom with a large stretch than you can start later & transplant a smaller plant later

but in general i would always choose a bigger pot / larger soil volume , hope all that makes sense

Sunrise & sunset times https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/australia/melbourne?month=12&year=2022 enter in your town to check your area

as far as plant health go's , yes yes & double yes , the healthier the plant the less susceptible to pest & disease , i haven't noticed the less vigorous plants get attacked more but i have noticed the less vigorous plants could be the more unhealthy plants & there for targeted more by pest or disease , the same cultivar in the same soil in the same sized pot doesn't always = the same health unfortunately

pests will target a plant with abundant nitrates because the growth you get from lots of N can stretch & thin out plant cell walls making it much easier for chewing & sucking insects to get in for a feed & setup a make babies shop , that's my understanding anyway

This is awesome general living soil advice. Peat can become very hydrophobic if allowed to have wet/dry cycle swings like you would do with coco. Becomes a battle because U end up overwatering trying to rewet the hydrophobic peat. I've found with the addition of wood fibre, its way easier to rewet when left to dry a bit too much... Gets way less hydrophobic.

 

[Madmick]

It was also written a few years ago when I was entering a market dominated by synthetic nutrient bottles and sterile media so I wanted to clearly point out the point of difference. Don't mean to mislead. And yeah obviously your genetics is the biggest limiting factor here.

Yeah as I've said before I'm not a fan

I never over or underwater, the soil was pretty much useless in a 50 l pot , now you'd think your soil would sustain a plant in that size pot for 3 months at least

Right from the start it was obvious there was a problem, fucked if I could work it out , it looked like it poorly lacked in nitrogen

So , using the same watering regime I started to water with my hydroponic solution

Within days I noticed improvement, after 2 weeks all the once yellow leaves turned green

The only conclusion I can draw is that the soil severely lacked nutrients or that the nutrients were unavailable due to incorrect pH

I can't think of any other reason why this would happen?

 

[Madmick]

PS. I'll put my hydro up against any organic bud , in fact I'd suggest it smells and smokes just as good maybe even better.

Big claim suggesting using your soil gives better terpenes and taste

 

[Porky]

PS. I'll put my hydro up against any organic bud , in fact I'd suggest it smells and smokes just as good maybe even better.

Big claim suggesting using your soil gives better terpenes and taste

It's just total bullshit that claim!!

 

[Donothing-garden]

PS. I'll put my hydro up against any organic bud , in fact I'd suggest it smells and smokes just as good maybe even better.

Big claim suggesting using your soil gives better terpenes and taste

All good man, I appreciate the feedback. Hydroponics is a completely different beast and some growers just don't ever get the results they're after when trying out organics. There's a reason massive companies in North America are switching out their facilities to living soil though. BTW, how did U determine U weren't over or underwatering? I find that a tensiometer style moisture meter can help guide.