Stoner Idea: Heat/cool air transfer.

[veritas629]

Last night's stoned idea actually sounds workable today! I'm open to suggestions or pointing out flaws in this plan.

My living room, with heat & A/C, is warm in winter and cool in summer. My grow area is a tent in a storage room directly under the living room, but accessed from outside the house. The grow room is cold in the winter and in the summer it builds up heat from venting the tent. In winter , I end up using an oil heater to take the cold edge off the grow room. In summer, if things get too hot in the grow room, I can't do much about it.

My idea is is to put a floor vent in the living room with insulated ducting and an inline fan including a controller with thermostat probe (e.g. our sponsor AC Infinity). This ducting would exhaust into the tent after passing through an appropriate air filter to remove dust, pet hair, etc This would be a real short run of ducting, only about a meter would be required. In the winter, I would warm the tent from the toasty living room. In the summer, I would cool the tent by blowing in air-conditioned living room air. The bonus, my heat and A/C use the lower tariff power compared to the higher tariff power points in the grow room.

A downside to this arrangement would be positive pressure in the tent when the air exchange is running. This would push smelly air out of the tent during flowering. This could be remedied by scrubbing the grow room air with a charcoal filter. Or I could alter the plan a little and direct the living room air into the grow room, rather than the grow tent. This would create a kind of climate controlled lung room.

What do you fellas think?

 

[puggle6]

hot air rises, cold air lowers..

Using fans and thermostats and shit you can scavange a bit of efficiency I'm sure

 

[pug]

interesting veritas

just wondering mate ... what strain got you thinking?

i like the idea of venting into the grow room rather than the tent, but would be careful about putting vents through the floor - they are a bit permanent. there might also be issues with pressure - you might need a return vent (maybe passive) back into your living room from the storage room. by the time you do the costings ... it might be better value to go the aircon route.

out of interest ... could you get a second head unit for your heat pump/aircon - some units allow for this. probably would need a sparky mate or at least a good excuse for it - maybe for a wine cellar or renting a room out. it would be pretty efficient and would only require a small hole in your storage room wall.

otherwise, you could get a cheap window mounted reverse cycle aircon just for your storage room. both of these options would make it a sealed room in both summer and winter. the window aircon is pretty cheap, but most of them don't use soft-inverters, so can be a bit exxy for power. also, would need a bigger hole to mount your aircon.

 

[Secretchief]

You could use a second vent with a passive intake, fan on exhaust pulling through a carbon filter. You will be getting the colder air from the floor but might work if it's not to big a grow space. You don't really want a draft like thag in your loungeroom tho so it's probably not a great idea, best thing would be split system a/c

 

[veritas629]

Hey Pug, I cracked my last jar of Mephisto Sour Stomper. My only auto grow so far, but that stuff is called "Giggle Weed" around my house. The Sour Stomper gets us doing silly and creative things!

I do own the house, not a rental, so cutting a small vent hole is no issue. But pressure and a return vent is something I hadn't thought about. Venting air from the grow room to the living room might be a bad idea during flowering. Most people who visit me are cannabis friendly, but they don't need to know I grow. I do have a couple windows in the grow room and they are currently discretely covered up to block curious eyes or light leaks. I could potentially add a small reverse cycle. I do know a grower who is an AC tech and could provide some advice here...

 

[Secretchief]

Cheap window a/c sounds like it might be perfect. I don't run ac but I, guessing you would still either run a slow exhaust or have to supplement co2?

 

[pug]

Hey Pug, I cracked my last jar of Mephisto Sour Stomper. My only auto grow so far, but that stuff is called "Giggle Weed" around my house. The Sour Stomper gets us doing silly and creative things!

I do own the house, not a rental, so cutting a small vent hole is no issue. But pressure and a return vent is something I hadn't thought about. Venting air from the grow room to the living room might be a bad idea during flowering. Most people who visit me are cannabis friendly, but they don't need to know I grow. I do have a couple windows in the grow room and they are currently discretely covered up to block curious eyes or light leaks. I could potentially add a small reverse cycle. I do know a grower who is an AC tech and could provide some advice here...

that mephisto sour stomper sounds superb mate! i'll put that on my list.

very handy indeed to have an AC tech who's a grower. not sure if it's still the case, but some splits used to come pre-gassed for a short installation distance, which made things heaps cheaper and easier. depending on how big your storage room is mate ... might be worth investing in a hammock and a few tropical posters, to chat to the girls during the winter months.

 

[Indy]

Last night's stoned idea actually sounds workable today! I'm open to suggestions or pointing out flaws in this plan.

My living room, with heat & A/C, is warm in winter and cool in summer. My grow area is a tent in a storage room directly under the living room, but accessed from outside the house. The grow room is cold in the winter and in the summer it builds up heat from venting the tent. In winter , I end up using an oil heater to take the cold edge off the grow room. In summer, if things get too hot in the grow room, I can't do much about it.

My idea is is to put a floor vent in the living room with insulated ducting and an inline fan including a controller with thermostat probe (e.g. our sponsor AC Infinity). This ducting would exhaust into the tent after passing through an appropriate air filter to remove dust, pet hair, etc This would be a real short run of ducting, only about a meter would be required. In the winter, I would warm the tent from the toasty living room. In the summer, I would cool the tent by blowing in air-conditioned living room air. The bonus, my heat and A/C use the lower tariff power compared to the higher tariff power points in the grow room.

A downside to this arrangement would be positive pressure in the tent when the air exchange is running. This would push smelly air out of the tent during flowering. This could be remedied by scrubbing the grow room air with a charcoal filter. Or I could alter the plan a little and direct the living room air into the grow room, rather than the grow tent. This would create a kind of climate controlled lung room.

What do you fellas think?

View attachment 25098

It'd work. But I'd be inclined to duct straight into the tent (with pre-filter/s), and where you exhaust from your tent. Have your AC Infinity fan (outside of tent) blowing out through the carbon scrubber. That way you can still maintain negative pressure within your tent.

Might want to factor in some noise management too, because you can still generate a bit of noise drawing the air through the entire system. It could get loud in the lounge room at times. If you could do a run of 4-5 metres using acoustic ducting between the lounge room floor and the tent, that would go some ways of quieting things down. Either that, or consider a silencer, though I don't have any experience with them to gauge how well they work.

But yeah, as others have said. The air going in has gotta come from somewhere. Either extra vents, or open door/s or window/s

 

[veritas629]

Time for more of my basic art. More detail for the Vent To Tent option. I'm still thinking about the Vent to Lung Room option.

 

[Indy]

What size fans are you going with, and what size is the grow space?

Not sure if you've considered it, or unable to do it. But usually from what I've noticed, the air flow direction in most grow space goes upwards. So the air inlet is around on/near the floor and extraction the top of tent. Not sure why its like that, but I'm guessing to avoid a pocket of humidity and/or stale air forming in top of the grow space.

Another thing you might want to factor in, if its important to keep the smell out of the lounge room. Is a Backdraft Damper. If you'd put one in, I'd place it in the ducting between your floor and tent. When fans are off, or had the door open, it'd minimise the chance of smell going back up into the lounge room.

 

[Secretchief]

Looks good. I would avoid the intake fan unless you have pretty big grow space or run the intake slow, as mentioned negative pressure helps make sure the only air escaping is the stuff going through the carbon filter. Large fans running slow are also quieter.
Personally like the ac idea as your basically co2 ready

 

[veritas629]

What size fans are you going with, and what size is the grow space?

Not sure if you've considered it, or unable to do it. But usually from what I've noticed, the air flow direction in most grow space goes upwards. So the air inlet is around on/near the floor and extraction the top of tent. Not sure why its like that, but I'm guessing to avoid a pocket of humidity and/or stale air forming in top of the grow space.

Another thing you might want to factor in, if its important to keep the smell out of the lounge room. Is a Backdraft Damper. If you'd put one in, I'd place it in the ducting between your floor and tent. When fans are off, or had the door open, it'd minimise the chance of smell going back up into the lounge room.

The fans will probably be 100-150mm, I'll follow AC Infinity's recommendation after I work out the plan. Regarding the air flow up/down, I can certainly duct the inflow to bottom and the exhaust out the top. I may do that, it only requires a few extra meters of ducting. On a side note, I already have an air mixing system running in my current tent setup. I have a small inline fan sucking air from a top port, down to a bottom port, constantly mixing the air to avoid stagnant pockets under the canopy.



I didn't know backdraft dampers existed, but I'll definitely use one now that I know!

 

[veritas629]

Looks good. I would avoid the intake fan unless you have pretty big grow space or run the intake slow, as mentioned negative pressure helps make sure the only air escaping is the stuff going through the carbon filter. Large fans running slow are also quieter.
Personally like the ac idea as your basically co2 ready

You know SC, you might be on to something. Maybe I should have the exhaust fan pulling the air out and the intake would be passive. Certainly cheaper, probably quieter, and would avoid the +/- pressure aspect. When I sit and think about this, it gets better. I'm basically doing this already. The difference is now I'm using the passive screen vents on the tent, but in the new system I would close those off and use a spare sock vent to some ducting up to the house. Gold Star to you Chief!

 

[Secretchief]

Sounds like you have a project on your hands. The only other consideration I can think of is that your lung room will want to be slightly colder than your desired tent temp, so if your aiming for 26 you will likely need your lung room lower than 24 (just a guess, won't know until you try).

 

[Indy]

Yeah, as Chief mentioned. A single fan would be the way to go, do away with the inlet one. It'd be a challenge to get two fans to run perfectly in sync. And considering all the restrictions you have within the ventilation system, you'd probably need at least a 200mm fan.

When it comes to passive intakes, everyone has their own formula. I usually stick with the idea of having the passive inlet/s (to the room/tent) at the very least twice the size of the fan in use, depending how much ducting, corners and general restrictions it's got to come through. You don't want overload the fan, and potentially create a fire hazard.

 

[thefullspectrum]

Quality exhaust fans are in another league. I started off with a 3 bathroom fans and considered them to be fine, knowing no better. Im using decent fans (phresh 150mm) now and cant compare.

The pressure these things produce is amazing. No intake fans required. Only run it on level 2 (of 10) whisper quiet but sucks air like fuck through the inlet vents and pushes air like fuck through the odour sock. Less than a quarter of the wattage for 100 x the efficiency. I cant even hear the fan running, just the sound of air rushing through the inlets and out the odour sock.

 

[veritas629]

I'm thinking I will be fine with a 4" or 6" fan. The ducting will be 1-3m at the inlet, depending on whether I go to the tent's roof vent or one near the bottom. Only a meter or so for the exhaust. Each section having a couple gentle bends. Although the 4" would probably work, the 6" would be working at lower speed, which equals less noise and a longer life span. There isn't a big price difference either.

My tent = 96 CF
4" AC Infinity = 205 CFM = turnover 2x per minute
6" AC Infinity = 402 CFM = turnover 4x per minute

 

[Indy]

Yeah, I've got a 6" AC Infinity hooked up to the cloud 67. It's a nice option to monitor and make adjustments from the lounge room (or 180ft away from the '67).

Just as long as your aware those stats they gave you to the volume turnover of the fans are usually unrestricted stats what the fan turns over alone. Once you add pre-filters, ducting, corners, dampers, carbon scrubbers, etc . It will restrict the air flow quite considerably.

I can relate to why you prefer the smaller ones as it should do the job most of the time. But best hope no issues of high humidity or heat arises where you need something decent to turn over a higher volume of air.

 

[veritas629]

I'm currently using a typical 4" fan on an Inkbird and the air turnover has been sufficient, but loud and less flexible than somethinng like an ACI controller. I suspect the more powerful & flexible 6" fan will be perfect.

I've read the controller manual cover to cover and still have one question that maybe Indy can answer. Indy, can I set different humidity trigger points during lights on vs lights off? Lights on and my tent has slightly low RH (high VPD) and with lights off I have slightly high RH (low VPD). I'm hoping the controller will help me minimize the VPD swings day to night.

 

[Indy]

Not that I've seen as yet, mate. From what I've noticed so far is you can alter the one set of off/on triggers for temperature or and humidity. Haven't come across a option for various points throughout a day cycle.

It'd be a good option for ACI to add (if not already there), VPD trigger option. My tent humidity spikes pretty bad when lights are off

Also, disregard my previous comments on the fans. I restricted my intakes on my 1.5m Gorilla tent, and turned the 6" up flat out, and it was sucking the sides in that hard I thought it was going to collapse/implode.

The 6" fan is reasonably quiet up to the 6th speed, but she's punching out the db's at 8.