Nutes advices/ reviews

[VinDeezle]

Would adding that seamungus pellet stuff to coco be a good idea? Not sure I can store a whole bag of it though. Maybe I can talk to my neighbour. They got some vegies and stuff in their yard

You can make a nice easy potting mix out of coco, compost and coarse sand as a base. The seamungus would go well in it. I do prefer peat moss for living soils as coco can drift neutral-alkaline if your microbe population dwindles and there's a ton of carbonates in any rock dust. I find it a bit more common to run into pH issues in coco based living soils, but it's probably just the mixes I've haphazardly put together.

 

[Goonie Goat]

Would adding that seamungus pellet stuff to coco be a good idea? Not sure I can store a whole bag of it though. Maybe I can talk to my neighbour. They got some vegies and stuff in their yard

They sell it in 2.5kg bags im pretty sure.
No harm in trying if you're dead set on organics, but I'm not in any position to give advice regarding living soils etc.

 

[itchybro]

Have you boys seen these fermented plant juices being sold? Looks like the new hype. Korean Natural Farming (KNF) and some other stuff. I don't know anything about organics. Looks too complicated and I don't have the space. I like the idea. In particular the claim of a water only situation. I was looking at this site for example: https://www.organicferments.com/

knf has been round for many years in the cannabis growing game , a common book that lots have read is " One Straw Revolution "
also a guy on youtube called chris trump ( no relation ) was showing people how to make ferments probably 10 years ago , there was also a website run by Gil Carandang who now has past away i think , it's called " The Unconventional Farmer " , it disappeared but i think someone resurrected it ,

just went for a look , here ya go https://www.unconventionalfarmsupply.com/unconventional-farmer-links , you can find many things to diy on there , just scroll down the page a bit & you'll find links to how to make all sorts of stuff at home from SST's seed sprout teas to cockroach composting

there is KNF ferments & also Jadam which is considered easier & i think developed by the son of the KNF innovator ( i think that's right been a minute since i thought about this stuff ) , i've made LAB's & a version of bokashi called grokashi a few times many years ago , as far as it smelling , in most cases it doesn't , most of the time your using a sugar to make these ferments so the ferment has a sweet winy type smell , definitely not unpleasant , although i've never made a fish ferment , i have definitely used these items indoor & out & it's probably more beneficial when used indoor due to the lack of a natural outdoor biology

i still use EM1 Effective Microorganisms in my garden
i buy it from here https://www.livingapartment.com/product/probiotic-living-liquid/ , i c&p some but not all the info just click the link if you want to read more , you can also learn how to extend this $23 1 liter bottle into a 20 liter bottle if you'd like

Product Info.​

Probiotics ie Beneficial Micro-Organisms (EM). Organic BFA certified.

Probiotic Living™ can be used in a many different ways.

Contains:- Organic(Non-GM) probiotic micro-organisms mixed with Molasses, Sea Salt, Mineral powder(Azomite).

Firstly this is not registered as a food grade product (this is actually a plus, as you get extra beneficial microbes all at a much lower price). The micro-organisms contained in the product are listed below and you will find a list of the beneficial effects at the end.

Probiotic Living™ is a collection of 15 different types of living beneficial microbes, store at room temperature ready for action, can be used in a multitude of ways to keep yourself, your family, your pets, your plants, your house and the environment, healthy and clean.

PNSB(purple non-sulfur bacteria) or Phototropic Bacteria- (Rhodopseudomonas palustris & Rhodopseudomonas sphaeroides).

Bacillus subtilis.

Lactobacillus acidophilus; Lactobacillus casei/rhamnosus; Lactobacillus bulgaricus; Lactobacillus fermentum; Lactobacillus plantarum.

Bifidobacterium animals; Bifidobacterium bifidum; Bifidobacterium longum.

Streptococcus lactis; Streptococcus thermophiles.

Saccharomyces cerevisiae.

 

[Brosef.Stalin]

Thank you for the advice. I am definitely not dead set on organics. It is attractive. The claims sound good. I would give it a go outside if I could. Indoor growers look like they use earth boxes or planters which are fairly big. I saw somewhere, must have been instagram, this awesome setup. It was a completely regenerative grow area indoors with a pond and everything under lights. so fkn cool man but like i don't know how you keep it long term and manage it. I like a simple syringe from a bottle was half thinking maybe there is a middle ground. But I read that synthetics kill organics. Both sides sort of hate each other. But then people talk about microbes? It's a long time since year 10 chem and bio but isn't it all much the same??? i saw a dr greenthumbs soil that i was going to maybe try to start with perhaps. mixing it all from scratch and that isn't for me

 

[Brosef.Stalin]

knf has been round....

oh this is great. lots cheaper. so bokashi and that. I seen that for the kitchen scraps like instead of a worm farm. so all of this is kind of the same thing. but you use it for the plants? that's kinda neat. I need to maybe look into this more seriously. I get a council green waste for kitchen scraps now but if I could use them for my benefit. thanks

 

[itchybro]

Thank you for the advice. I am definitely not dead set on organics. It is attractive. The claims sound good. I would give it a go outside if I could. Indoor growers look like they use earth boxes or planters which are fairly big. I saw somewhere, must have been instagram, this awesome setup. It was a completely regenerative grow area indoors with a pond and everything under lights. so fkn cool man but like i don't know how you keep it long term and manage it. I like a simple syringe from a bottle was half thinking maybe there is a middle ground. But I read that synthetics kill organics. Both sides sort of hate each other. But then people talk about microbes? It's a long time since year 10 chem and bio but isn't it all much the same??? i saw a dr greenthumbs soil that i was going to maybe try to start with perhaps. mixing it all from scratch and that isn't for me

oh this is great. lots cheaper. so bokashi and that. I seen that for the kitchen scraps like instead of a worm farm. so all of this is kind of the same thing. but you use it for the plants? that's kinda neat. I need to maybe look into this more seriously. I get a council green waste for kitchen scraps now but if I could use them for my benefit. thanks

i grow organically because i believe it producers a superior product to synthetic based systems , it's an argument that has gone on for years organic vs synthetic , i really don't care one way or the other just to say find what works for you & do it the best ya can , you do you

i use earthboxes , i have 3 in a 4x4 , the reason people use earthboxes is they preform like larger pots , when using living soil it is recommended to use larger volumes of soil , like 15 gal minimum , reason being is you need to keep the biology alive so your water only method works , in smaller pots the moisture content can change way to rapidly to keep the soil life alive which you need to do nutrient cycling & plant protection/health , with an earthbox or SIP sub irrigated Planter the soil is kept consistently moist through the whole grow , you also use a plastic mulch cover or as some call it a shower cap , which will trap evaporation on the under side of the plastic & rain back down on the top soil keeping all the soil moist top to bottom as well as being extremely efficient with water usage , Australia has there own version of earthboxes called Green Smart Pots = same but different

as to using bokashi with you kitchen scrapes , the bokashi is fermenting the kitchen scrapes which is breaking them down but not as you think a compost bin or worm farm would do , once the scrapes have been through the bokashi bin they look not different to when you put them in , they need to be put through the compost bin , worm farm or buried to be converted to compost , this happens much quicker once they've been fermented but still need that composting conversion step for them to be used

here are some pics from a while ago , under the plastic cover of an earthbox before using grokashi & under the plastic cover & after using grokashi , grokashi is a slightly different thing to the bokashi you can buy , although you could use it with your kitchen scrapes it's more designed as a probiotic fertilizer , by the way you use the stuff i linked above EM1 with a few other ingredients to make grokashi or bokashi

 

[BudSlinger]

i grow organically because i believe it producers a superior product to synthetic based systems , it's an argument that has gone on for years organic vs synthetic , i really don't care one way or the other just to say find what works for you & do it the best ya can , you do you

Hey man, I wanted to ask you something. My Balanced top dress and Mustard Seed Meal have similar NPK values. Do you think I could save a bit of money by reamending my old used soil with the Mustard Seed Meal I have sitting around? Did some reading, am very aware MSM can cause a "hot mix" both in temp and nute strength for up to 4 weeks and is not safe for pets until fully broken down which can take up to 4 weeks if you are being safe. I never let my pets anywhere near my grow rooms.

Balanced: 4.5 - 2 - 1.5
MSM : 5 - 1 - 3

Not saying this is a smart thing to do, just wondering if I can save a bit of money by slowly using this big bag I have instead of buying another HPO Balanced bag if they are such similar values.

 

[itchybro]

hey mate

it's not really the NPK numbers that are important , just looking at numbers you'd probably find lots of things that would be close number wise but would do very different things , it's more about the ingredients & what they do ,so i'd say , no , one does not replace the other in this case , i'd use the MSM to fumigate the old soil while re amending it for it's next run , assuming your emptying out pots after a grow

in a perfect world you would use much larger volumes of soil in beds , you would keep the soil moist & " no till " these beds to keep soil life intact & continue to top dress regularly & always have something growing in them whether that be the next clone that you would plant beside the chopped stalk of the last crop or fresh cover crop seed you'd add just before harvest of the last crop , doing these steps is important because plant roots attract & feed soil organisms which growers need as much as plants do to nutrient cycle top dresses / organic matter like roots left from the last crop & to protect your cash crop from possible pathogen attack , what most seem to find when doing this is the soil improves with each run , plant health increases yields increase terpene expression is more vibrant , basically all metrics improve , anyway sorry bit of a tangent there

 

[BudSlinger]

it's not really the NPK numbers that are important , just looking at numbers you'd probably find lots of things that would be close number wise but would do very different things , it's more about the ingredients & what they do ,so i'd say , no , one does not replace the other in this case , i'd use the MSM to fumigate the old soil while re amending it for it's next run , assuming your emptying out pots after a grow

Thanks mate I appreciate the thoughtful answer, Ill keep to the HPO method that I have been using then and only use the MSM as a preventative in the mix.

 

[Brosef.Stalin]

i grow organically because i believe it producers a superior product to synthetic based systems , it's an argument that has gone on for years organic vs synthetic , i really don't care one way or the other just to say find what works for you & do it the best ya can , you do you

wow thank you very much for sharing all that info. gives me a better perspective on what it is about. it looks quite cool with the fungus growing. i'd be interested to give it a shot sometime. do you reuse the same boxes and soil? amending between crops?

 

[itchybro]

do you reuse the same boxes and soil? amending between crops?

in earthboxes yes but it's best to have some other soil ready to go , you tip out the soil from the crop you just harvested which is generally full of roots & needs to be broken up re amended & mixed , put it in a storage bin / tub with the worms that are already there or add some more . keep it moist & let it sit while you run the next crop with a second batch of soil , just alternate the 2 batches of soil

you also might add a fresh 25ltr bag of soil to each batch as well as re amending maybe after every second or third run depending on how long you kept plants in the earthboxes for , you get used to seeing how much your storage bin fills up , sometimes you might mix a fresh bag of potting soil in before you fill the boxes for the next grow if the storage bin looked a little low when you filled it

i'd also suggest using a peat based soil mix from easy as organics , greenthumbs or mix your own Coots type mix in a SIP