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[Tman101]

Hi Guys, I’m in my 2nd run of white widow autos and I’m a. It surprised at the lack of progress. I’m subfloor in a 60x120 tent running a spider farmer SF2000. 180w heater, humidifier and I’ve an average of 22c and 60% RH with little fluctuation. Inline fan, running organic soil. Root roids x 2 doses. Went in 3 weeks ago. So 21 days from seed.

I have trained early, but they are just no moving much, compared to last grow. Ones already showing hairs.

Any thoughts?

 

[Tman101]

Am I just impatient? The one on the left went in 3 days later so behind and smalller.

Sitting at about 450ppfd 20/4 schedule

 

[Goonie Goat]

They definitely look a bit behind. Not trying to offend but if you have preflowers / pistils showing already well those plants are not going to yield diddly squat.

First things first, that soil looks very dense. Its not ideal for little autoflowers they need a fluffier lighter mix, predominantly coco or peat and a real good amount of perlite.

I always start them in solo cups and transplant to final containers around week 2, reason being is I can't trust myself to not overwater a big pot with such a small plant. In those earlier stages autos need some good drybacks, it encourages the roots to spread out and once established and when transplanted they will explode with growth.

You only get to screw things up once or maybe twice if lucky, that's why a lot of people hate them, because photoperiods will bounce back from errors, autos will kick up a stink and go to flower if you fail to correct issues

So in a nutshell :
Start in a cup or 0.8ml pot.
Less watering - get those drybacks happening (think I feed maybe 4 times in those first 2 weeks).
Coco and peat probably better to begin with just way more forgiving.
Humidity 55-60% good, 70-80% bad you want that dryback in those first 3 weeks they cannot sit in dense sogged up soil

 

[Tman101]

Thanks, thought I had everything sorted and under control. Frustrating

I had just watered hence the wet soil. They needed it. I did the same last time but it was summer, that’s the only difference

 

[Goonie Goat]

Thanks, thought I had everything sorted and under control. Frustrating

I had just watered hence the wet soil. They needed it. I did the same last time but it was summer, that’s the only difference

I'd get some more started in smaller pots, is your soil homemade or you running that turbo dirt stuff??

Did you get any seeds from the comps at all? I've sent in a bunch of different autos, maybe those white widows are a bit on the smaller side regardless too??

 

[Tman101]

Turbo dirt. I have some mimosa photos I might gem.

Disappointing to say the least. Thought the environment was dialled. Too much water you think, in short ?

 

[Goonie Goat]

Turbo dirt. I have some mimosa photos I might gem.

Disappointing to say the least. Thought the environment was dialled. Too much water you think, in short ?

I've never grown with it but from what ive seen I have just never really seen decent sized autos grown in it. Perhaps if you mixed in some coco coir and more perlite it would help but yeah I think it's too dense for the beginning stages. You look like you've done everything right besides that so ya cant be too hard on yourself.

 

[Tman101]

I’m sub floor under the house and the gas heater unit is a few meters away. It gives good ambient warmth but I wonder if the air is off that’s being pulled into the tent.

 

[Goonie Goat]

Feb 16



That's 2 weeks from sprout to final pots for comparison, in just a mix of coco coir, bit of manure and 20% perlite I'd say.

They just started throwing pistils at week 4-6

Fast forward to flower and this was the result in a 6 litre pot, all the others got supercropped because they outgrew the smaller spiderfarner 60×120, this one was in my taller mars 60×120

 

[HomeBound_Hound]

Turbo dirt. I have some mimosa photos I might gem.

Disappointing to say the least. Thought the environment was dialled. Too much water you think, in short ?

Ditch the dirt get some peat or coco go at least 35% perlite
Start ya autos in smaller pots then up pot later
Getting water consistency in larger pots is a nightmare and autos hate it
If ya find ya water alot go a high percentage of perlite or go coco over peat
Don't worry about trying to train an auto till ya can successfully grow an auto
Every piece of training puts stress on the plant every bit of stress add recovery time and autos give very little grace for mistakes.

 

[Tman101]

Thanks, as I mentioned, no problem with last round with vege, same soil, strain. Try trained nicely. I’ll give them another week, see what they do.

Thanks for the input.

 

[benn0]

View attachment 74826
Feb 16
View attachment 74827
View attachment 74828

That's 2 weeks from sprout to final pots for comparison, in just a mix of coco coir, bit of manure and 20% perlite I'd say.

They just started throwing pistils at week 4-6

Fast forward to flower and this was the result in a 6 litre pot, all the others got supercropped because they outgrew the smaller spiderfarner 60×120, this one was in my taller mars 60×120

View attachment 74829

Always good seeing some of Goonie Goats home grown porn

 

[Tman101]

They definitely look a bit behind. Not trying to offend but if you have preflowers / pistils showing already well those plants are not going to yield diddly squat.

First things first, that soil looks very dense. Its not ideal for little autoflowers they need a fluffier lighter mix, predominantly coco or peat and a real good amount of perlite.

I always start them in solo cups and transplant to final containers around week 2, reason being is I can't trust myself to not overwater a big pot with such a small plant. In those earlier stages autos need some good drybacks, it encourages the roots to spread out and once established and when transplanted they will explode with growth.

You only get to screw things up once or maybe twice if lucky, that's why a lot of people hate them, because photoperiods will bounce back from errors, autos will kick up a stink and go to flower if you fail to correct issues

So in a nutshell :
Start in a cup or 0.8ml pot.
Less watering - get those drybacks happening (think I feed maybe 4 times in those first 2 weeks).
Coco and peat probably better to begin with just way more forgiving.
Humidity 55-60% good, 70-80% bad you want that dryback in those first 3 weeks they cannot sit in dense sogged up soil

So I decided I’m going to stick at them for a couple of reasons, main one being I don’t have time to start photos now, I had timed this grow. I’m resigned to poor yield, but for the hell of it I'm going to give them the best chance at a life they can have .

My take away is : dry them out before a watering. This contrasts with the keep organic soil moist suggestions, I see where the tricks are for new players.

Keep an eye on the rest. Temp and RH and PPFD. Train where appropriate, but just let them grow. They are in water only soil, but adjust if required.
Also feeding root and fruit roids.
PH water to 6.2
Also removed any tie downs for now

Anything else? I’m running 20/4 too.

Strange t all suffered the same fate, in different pots, not even one took off to spite the others. One was even planted 3 days later.

Cheers for you in put, I’m going to look into coco, all I’ve even known is soil, past grows in my youth and outdoor, I will do some homework and do some photos next, which I’m more confident with.

 

[sp4c3]

I’m sub floor under the house and the gas heater unit is a few meters away. It gives good ambient warmth but I wonder if the air is off that’s being pulled into the tent.

hmmmm, i know that gas heaters produce CO2 which is good for the plants...but it also produces CO (carbon monoxide) and nitrogen dioxide, which is both highly toxic for humans....so, also maybe toxic for plants as well....if you pull more toxins then oxygen in your tent, that can definitely have a bad effect on your grow....just my 20 cents worth....

 

[Goonie Goat]

So I decided I’m going to stick at them for a couple of reasons, main one being I don’t have time to start photos now, I had timed this grow. I’m resigned to poor yield, but for the hell of it I'm going to give them the best chance at a life they can have .

My take away is : dry them out before a watering. This contrasts with the keep organic soil moist suggestions, I see where the tricks are for new players.

Keep an eye on the rest. Temp and RH and PPFD. Train where appropriate, but just let them grow. They are in water only soil, but adjust if required.
Also feeding root and fruit roids.
PH water to 6.2
Also removed any tie downs for now

Anything else? I’m running 20/4 too.

Strange t all suffered the same fate, in different pots, not even one took off to spite the others. One was even planted 3 days later.

Cheers for you in put, I’m going to look into coco, all I’ve even known is soil, past grows in my youth and outdoor, I will do some homework and do some photos next, which I’m more confident with.

Coco is great man, you'll definitely find it easier I reckon. Yeah I agree the advice I give will contradict what others may think but that is just from my experience so far with growing autoflowers.

The first autoflowers I grew were in potting soil too - like you I watered to keep the soil from drying out and the plants ended up getting 10-15cm tall and began to flower . I think I ended up with a nights worth of smoke from 2 plants..

They also say not to let coco completely dry out either but i have let that happen plenty of times, either forget to water or just lack of effort I guess, but the plants have always produced well and for the most part seemed happy atleast 80% of the time..

I should also mention that I have automated Irrigation on timers in 1 tent, my other tents I hand water.

The plants being fed by the drippers always grow faster and look way healthier than what my hand watered plants look. So highly recommend setting up some dripper halos on timers as I've noticed lots of problems I had seemed to go away when I made the change to automated irrigation once they got bigger

 

[Tman101]

So im going to start again. I’ve got some blue dream autos on their way. I bought some perlite and block of coco and I’ll fluff the soil up a bit and see if that helps. I done my homework and taken in different views and settled on my approach, which I won’t go into yet as I don’t need more advice and things to think about .

My question is though, I’m subfloor so pretty much outside really. The heater and light combo give a stable 22-24c and the humidifier for germ and veg helps of course.

I now understand now how critical each hour is in that first week and where I went wrong and when my light go off 12-4pm it drops to 17-18c( not saying was the problem. Over watering and not understanding the timing and dry backs was).

Longest question ever, can I run 24/0 for a week to maintain ideal conditions and the reduce back to 20 or 18 on once established and veging well, or will that stunt the buggers again? Or given the external variability, should I just run 24/0 right through, which wouldn’t be my preference.

Thanks

 

[Tman101]

Oh and I’m committing to the soil. I really like the organic side of it rather than synthetic nutes, not that there is anything wrong with them, I’m sure I have smoked pounds over it over the years.

Not saying I won’t change up once I have soil nailed.

Cheers

 

[WafflesIceTangerine]

Longest question ever, can I run 24/0 for a week to maintain ideal conditions and the reduce back to 20 or 18 on once established and veging well, or will that stunt the buggers again? Or given the external variability, should I just run 24/0 right through, which wouldn’t be my preference.

Yes mate, perfectly fine. Just be mindful when you change your hours you will want to change your ppfd to match, don't want to frazzle the seedlings first week, and also don't want to stunt them from low light from when you drop the hours.

I find DLI a much more useful metric as it normalises ppfd and hours into 1 value. I'd look into that and reccomended values for autos if you haven't yet. I posted this in whatsaforests thread a while back

 

[Tman101]

Thanks, AI has been incredibly helpful with DLI calculations so far, I understand exactly what you mean. I just need a good start and I’ll be away.

I’ll go photos next as I’m too “handsy” with my plants and let you know try things, but autos are not for that, I’ve learnt

 

[WafflesIceTangerine]

Thanks, AI has been incredibly helpful with DLI calculations so far, I understand exactly what you mean. I just need a good start and I’ll be away.

I’ll go photos next as I’m too “handsy” with my plants and let you know try things, but autos are not for that, I’ve learnt

Myself and I'm sure others here would be happy to see another journal and follow along if you're keen And good spot to ask for any advice you may need