Creepy pH levels

[Yamumzbum]

I just returned to a coco recirculation system after spending a few years in soil and amongst other things I don't remember having to adjust the pH creep in the reservoir on a daily basis, does this seem normal?

 

[VinDeezle]

just depends on the nutrients used and type of system, how much buffering compounds are in the water used, the environment and the plants metabolism. For example, if its relatively dry, there's a lot of evaporation and the plants drinking more than it is eating (in a recirculating system, but I'm not sure what you are using) the ppm should increase and the ph will drop. I've had times where the PH will vary a bit each day depending in the plants uptake and environment, and times where the same nutrients have stayed relatively steady for a few days.

 

[Old fox]

I've never seen a recirculating Coco grow. Only drain to waste with coco. I'm interested, if you have any photos of your setup?

 

[Pikey]

Didn't Michael J Foxtail do something like that? ...I'll see if I can find it .

EDIT : Found it -> https://www.theserratededge.com/forum/threads/just-quietly.2193/ ...not the same, I was confused

 

[VinDeezle]

I've never seen a recirculating Coco grow. Only drain to waste with coco. I'm interested, if you have any photos of your setup?

It was the most rudimentary bodge job I set up a few years ago to cover longer trips out at work. Not really recirculating (more recycled) and wasn't really used for more than a few days at a time. Basically just an autopot reservoir above the pot level and a drip ring setup. It would drain and collect in another reservoir below pot level.

I'd run most of the first res down and what gathered in the lower res would get moved up to the top position

What I was putting in would usually come out a lower ec and higher pH, and also gave some particles which would block up the lines here and there. I'd just call a mate and ask them to swap the res over, check the pH and the plants would survive off the recycled feed until I got home. I usually ran 70 coco, 30 perlite but it was mainly a stop gap for trips away from work.

 

[Yamumzbum]

just depends on the nutrients used and type of system, how much buffering compounds are in the water used, the environment and the plants metabolism. For example, if its relatively dry, there's a lot of evaporation and the plants drinking more than it is eating (in a recirculating system, but I'm not sure what you are using) the ppm should increase and the ph will drop. I've had times where the PH will vary a bit each day depending in the plants uptake and environment, and times where the same nutrients have stayed relatively steady for a few days.

Thanks mate I'm using a recirculation system with coco as medium.

I thought the ppm should decrease if the plants are using the nutes, not increase. Or do I have that wrong?

 

[Yamumzbum]

I've never seen a recirculating Coco grow. Only drain to waste with coco. I'm interested, if you have any photos of your setup?

 

[Yamumzbum]

It's a bit of a mess I'm just installing the scrog nets

 

[Yamumzbum]

It's top feed which drains into the lower pots which the pot holding the medium sits in and then it kinda returns to the reservoir.

The only thing I'm not keen on is you tend to get some stagnant nite water sitting in the bottom of the pots so it means regular flushes of the system.

 

[bushbob]

Thanks mate I'm using a recirculation system with coco as medium.

I thought the ppm should decrease if the plants are using the nutes, not increase. Or do I have that wrong?

ppm will decrease as the plants use nutes but I think what Vin is saying is that in dry times, the plants will take up more water to hydrate ( plain H2O ) and filter out/leave behind the nutes in the remaining solution and medium, which will lead to an increase in concentration and ppm.

 

[Old fox]

It's top feed which drains into the lower pots which the pot holding the medium sits in and then it kinda returns to the reservoir.

The only thing I'm not keen on is you tend to get some stagnant nite water sitting in the bottom of the pots so it means regular flushes of the system.

How does the water/nutes return to the reservoir? I can see a return tube from the saucer, but what moves the water?

 

[Yamumzbum]

How does the water/nutes return to the reservoir? I can see a return tube from the saucer, but what moves the water?

It's just gravity fed back into the reservoir.
I've got the pots sitting a little higher than the res to help the flow but it's not exactly a perfect set up coz you do have solution sitting in the bottom of the pots. Unfortunately gravity doesn't provide enough inertia vacuum to get all the waste solution all the way back into the res.

Frequent topping up of fresh solutions helps this.
I also programmed to fertigate 2 minutes out of every four hours.

This is likely a little more than the ladies like to drink but in my mind I've convinced myself that circulating the solution perhaps means the solution is being exchanged more often and may help avoid any solution becoming rank, stagnant and all round shithouse n slimey.

The return lines need to stay fairly level in order to achieve the flow back and since all our tents power/duct openings are around 100mm or more higher than the tent floors, it meant taking to my beloved gorilla tent with a Stanley knife to cut the opening which the return lines poke through to reach the rez.

It's good to be back in coco mate I'd forgotten how effective it is as a medium.

The growth is explosive compared to soil in my experience.

Not just that but it's the ability to fast tune the ec levels which after doing top feed dry amendments, this seems like it has an immediate response to the plants.

 

[Yamumzbum]

ppm will decrease as the plants use nutes but I think what Vin is saying is that in dry times, the plants will take up more water to hydrate ( plain H2O ) and filter out/leave behind the nutes in the remaining solution and medium, which will lead to an increase in concentration and ppm.

Right okay yeah I get ya.

I frequently fertigate so I hope there aren't too many dry times apart from the little bit of h20 deprivation I do as a little experiment into drought stress but that aside I think careful feeding is the best coz I do find things can quickly get out of control with the building up of the salts. I generally stay around 1.5 - 1.8 EC perhaps up to 2.0 max and just take frequent readings in the rez.

That's what I have going through the feed lines and I find currently the waste solution EC is coming in at about 0.8 EC which if I were absolutely honest I don't truely know if that's about right but I can tell you that my ladies are fit, healthy and possibly religious coz they pray all fucking day lol

 

[Old fox]

It's just gravity fed back into the reservoir.
I've got the pots sitting a little higher than the res to help the flow but it's not exactly a perfect set up coz you do have solution sitting in the bottom of the pots. Unfortunately gravity doesn't provide enough inertia vacuum to get all the waste solution all the way back into the res.

Frequent topping up of fresh solutions helps this.
I also programmed to fertigate 2 minutes out of every four hours.

This is likely a little more than the ladies like to drink but in my mind I've convinced myself that circulating the solution perhaps means the solution is being exchanged more often and may help avoid any solution becoming rank, stagnant and all round shithouse n slimey.

The return lines need to stay fairly level in order to achieve the flow back and since all our tents power/duct openings are around 100mm or more higher than the tent floors, it meant taking to my beloved gorilla tent with a Stanley knife to cut the opening which the return lines poke through to reach the rez.

It's good to be back in coco mate I'd forgotten how effective it is as a medium.

The growth is explosive compared to soil in my experience.

Not just that but it's the ability to fast tune the ec levels which after doing top feed dry amendments, this seems like it has an immediate response to the plants.

Imho. Soil as an indoor medium is inefficient due to slow growth rates. It is a perfect outdoor medium. The debate about flowers tasting better when grown in soil, is very subjective. I steer clear of Coco( by itself )due to wasted nutrients in a dtw style grow, so recirculating makes better economic sense to me. Do you have any issues maintaining constant pH and ec levels with this setup?

 

[bushbob]

Right okay yeah I get ya.

I frequently fertigate so I hope there aren't too many dry times apart from the little bit of h20 deprivation I do as a little experiment into drought stress but that aside I think careful feeding is the best coz I do find things can quickly get out of control with the building up of the salts. I generally stay around 1.5 - 1.8 EC perhaps up to 2.0 max and just take frequent readings in the rez.

That's what I have going through the feed lines and I find currently the waste solution EC is coming in at about 0.8 EC which if I were absolutely honest I don't truely know if that's about right but I can tell you that my ladies are fit, healthy and possibly religious coz they pray all fucking day lol

I run my res at a similar EC range. The large one flushes 4 times daily and after a full day its common for the EC to drop from 1.8 to 0.9-1.0 if they are hungry, especially during stretch is seems.
PH is trending high lately but pretty sure thats down to the water I'm using and not nute salt buildup. The plants are fine and healthy regardless.

 

[Hudo]

The PH shifts when the plants use the nutes it messes with the positive ions or some shit. There is a product caller torus hydro perfect ph. It uses a solution to charge it between runs then it buffers your PH. I haven't used one but been eying it off for a while. It's about 200 and the charging solution is about 60 bucks and charge it about 3 times

Torus Hydro Perfect Ph - 130L | 35 Gallon | Ph Stabilizer

Torus Hydro Perfect Ph - 130L / 35 Gallon | Ph Stabilizer Stabilise Your pH The Easy Way! What is Torus Hydro Perfect pH? Torus Hydro Perfect pH is a pH stabilizer that automatically regulates the pH of your hydroponics system, keeping it in the ideal range for optimal nutrient absorption. It...

happyhydroponics.com.au

I run my res at a similar EC range. The large one flushes 4 times daily and after a full day its common for the EC to drop from 1.8 to 0.9-1.0 if they are hungry, especially during stretch is seems.
PH is trending high lately but pretty sure thats down to the water I'm using and not nute salt buildup. The plants are fine and healthy regardless.

 

[Billygoat]

If I’m interpreting the pics correctly, the pots full of coco are sitting on upturned saucers or similar, maybe 50mm high.

And the yellow top res, sitting on the ground at the same level as the upturned saucers?

What is the water level in the res?

 

[Yamumzbum]

ppm will decrease as the plants use nutes but I think what Vin is saying is that in dry times, the plants will take up more water to hydrate ( plain H2O ) and filter out/leave behind the nutes in the remaining solution and medium, which will lead to an increase in concentration and ppm.

Right okay yeah I get ya.

I frequently fertigate so I hope there aren't too many dry times apart from the little bit of h20 deprivation I do as a little experiment into drought stress but that aside I think careful feeding is the best coz I do find things can quickly get out of control with the building up of the salts. I generally stay around 1.5 - 1.8 EC perhaps up to 2.0 max and just take frequent readings in the rez

I run my res at a similar EC range. The large one flushes 4 times daily and after a full day its common for the EC to drop from 1.8 to 0.9-1.0 if they are hungry, especially during stretch is seems.
PH is trending high lately but pretty sure thats down to the water I'm using and not nute salt buildup. The plants are fine and healthy regardless.

Thanks alot for your input mate it's always reassuring when you hear of someone taking a similar path as yourself.

So if we have this all wrong we're both going down in flames

 

[Yamumzbum]

Imho. Soil as an indoor medium is inefficient due to slow growth rates. It is a perfect outdoor medium. The debate about flowers tasting better when grown in soil, is very subjective. I steer clear of Coco( by itself )due to wasted nutrients in a dtw style grow, so recirculating makes better economic sense to me. Do you have any issues maintaining constant pH and ec levels with this setup?

I reckon you're right mate I'm falling in love with coco all over again.

I spent maybe 18ish months in soil and I'm glad I did if only for the experience it provides and for a short period I convinced myself it likely was a little more alnatural lol stupid really since I consume other far more toxic chemicals than what I may smoke in my flower so yeh the honeymoon has ended I guess you could say mate.

With pH I initially thought it was creeping up more than I had remembered but after much head scratching I decided that it's likely quite normal and not just that but previously I'd only run two 27 litre recirc pots and this run I've got 4x that which is probably the reason for the noticeable difference.

The EC is going great for now and I'm having almost identical fluctuations as the gentleman above (apologies to ... for my terrible memory) I have been using house and garden complete line for the first time and I'm very happy with their products and if it wasn't already easy enough then they have a pretty cool app for Android phones to calculate your exact dosing schedule and all that matter.

I have yet to do a full exchange of the nute solution and it's been going for two weeks so I think maybe it's an appropriate time to do this before shit gets real slimey.

So far so good mate touch wood because I had the most spectacular fail I've ever had with my last crop and it wasn't until week 7 I realised something was wrong when I decided to pinch a lower bud to speed dry n smoke and when I broke it open it rained fucking seeds!! Hundreds and thousands mate.. they'd all hermied on me and you know the cause mate,, I'd recently and in hindsight very stupidly bought those light controller modules from AC and thought I'd be a smart cunt and rely on technology to provide schedule for my lights and well long story short there was a program malfunction which was absolutely all my fault and it was triggering my lights on for short bursts, how many times I'm unsure but it was happening during darkness and I had no fucking idea since I don't enter the room at dark times so this carried on up until my stumbling upon seeds in a tiny little bud I picked early.

Fuck I dunno mate it was almost enough to make you cry.. almost. Fuck it just put it down to a lesson learnt the hard way.


Thank God for Turboklones mate.