Breeding Questions

[John Hall]

Just thought I would make a thread about everything Breeding wise.
When i started growing seeds were very hard to come by so I started making my own using male and female plants initially then using sts to create feminised seeds.
My first question which has always had me wondering. When I create s1 seeds from a f1 cross what are those s1 seeds going to express. Will they be like their mother or can you still get different phenos with some expressions from pollen donor?
Next question is with the experienced breeders have they found a mother the plant actually making the seeds or the pollen donor even if female. What are the offspring most likely to resemble the pollen donor or the mum. I have read stuff on Mendel's rules but just wanted to hear from peoples experiences.

 

[John Hall]

Just finished making a shitload of cherry gar see ya x crescendo s1 seeds.
Next project is the crescendo x Mac my favourite smoke. And maybe the banghi haze , ortega and apple fritter depending on how they finish up and if I like the smoke.

 

[Goonie Goat]

first question which has always had me wondering. When I create s1 seeds from a f1 cross what are those s1 seeds going to express. Will they be like their mother or can you still get different phenos with some expressions from pollen donor?

You could not guess until you grew out a decent number of the seeds to see for yourself, sometimes a parent can dominate that cross but first you would have to use a stable line for breeding such as Deep Chunk or Pakistani Chitral Kush for instance.

So when you use a stable strain as a parent in a cross, it is likely to dominate the expressions.
When I crossed an og kush plant (which had quite a bit of variation between sisters) with Ortega (northern lights), I could not believe the outcome - it basically looked like Ortega and had the pink pistils. So the ortega pollen donor dominated that cross in the f1.

A lot of the newer strains today are polyhybrids which have a bigger diverse genepool so when you cross that with another polyhybrid there's generally going to be a bunch of different phenotypes between siblings in in the f1 so it's impossible to know what you'll find.

Its way easier to take a stab in the dark with guesses when the strains used as parents are truebreeding heirloom strains, that would make the cross a true f1 hybrid or true f1 female hybrid. Which should display homogeneous traits between siblings.

I'm no breeder and I don't think 80% of the industry selling seeds are either. Breeder is a word that's freely chucked around too much. Breeders put in the work to stabilize traits.
Ethos is a knob but does back cross which is the cheats way of breeding so you atleast get some uniformity. Look into his lines, most of all his strains share a common ancestry.

 

[John Hall]

Awesome reply mate as always a wealth of knowledge and only happy to share.
Yeah I should say pollen chucking.
My brother explained it similar.
A homogeneous parent something that has dominate genes. Like something bread past f5 banghi haze or Ortega as an example. If you were to make s1 seeds from it the offspring will most likely resemble the parent im guessing. Whereas a f1 from 2 likely unstable parents is just a lucky dip although some traits will be similar to either parent.
I will give away most seeds and keep some for after the apocalypse If I survive.
Have an ol mate with a decent property he can try a few out. And as always I will offer to members here.

 

[Goonie Goat]

Awesome reply mate as always a wealth of knowledge and only happy to share.
Yeah I should say pollen chucking.
My brother explained it similar.
A homogeneous parent something that has dominate genes. Like something bread past f5 banghi haze or Ortega as an example. If you were to make s1 seeds from it the offspring will most likely resemble the parent im guessing. Whereas a f1 from 2 likely unstable parents is just a lucky dip although some traits will be similar to either parent.
I will give away most seeds and keep some for after the apocalypse If I survive.
Have an ol mate with a decent property he can try a few out. And as always I will offer to members here.

Yep you're bang on the money there, precisely what will be the outcome.

So you might see people saying stuff such as 'genetic bottleneck' 'genepool bottlenecking' etc when it comes to F5-F10 etc because as they say "likeness breeds likeness" - selective breeding will lock in certain morphological traits such as Leaf mutations (Ducksfoot, Australian bastard cannabis or freakshow), hollow stems or thick stems, bud structures, flower colours and smells.

The anvil autoflower I just sprouted has been bred to F8, so should produce purple flower consistently but only time will tell.

Some argue that inbreeding past f5 will result in poor vigour but I'm not too sure. The blueberry muffin I grew was at f9 and they grew fine, no stunted plants or anything....

You get it though, the stable lines will pretty much stay the same as they are true in certain traits.

Now when you cross a polyhybrid with another polyhybrid, once you get to f2-f3 there's going to be recessive (hidden) traits showing up which were always in that genepool. So you might start with something which smells like bubblegum or berries but a few generations later and it might smell completely different if that makes any sense.
The exact same thing applies to Selfing also, selfing a polyhybrid f1 probably won't result in seeds growing and showing traits like the mother, but a bunch of different traits from that massive genepool