Fabric pot issue with shrinkage around sides

[Bear777]

Any tips on how to combat or prevent excessive shrinkage from the sides of fabric pots.
I have tried topping up with soil, I wonder if there's a better way to prevent it from happening. Anybody tried the fabric pots with a partial plastic liner on the sides.

 

[VinDeezle]

Ive noticed I don't get this issue anymore as I water once a day from the get go, and move to twice a day during flower.

I used to get that a fair bit as I was going a day or two inbetween watering. I find I generally get better results keeping the medium constantly moist, and less shrinkage and chance of hydrophobic medium as well..

If i didn't pack the pots down Nd let it dry out too much I could fit a few fingers down the side.. add to that it would get hydrophobic and run straight down the sides haha.

 

[itchybro]

yep Vin's right , your letting the pot dry to long between watering's

you do have to be careful because you can over water easy but like Vin you have to find that happy place

those plastic lined fabric pots are good & worth it but getting watering on point is probably better for you as a grower
larger volumes of soil is also better at keeping moisture more consistent

 

[Bear777]

Been going 2 to 3 days between watering, it's hard to judge the right amount of water, the soil is moist still even when the weight the pot has significantly decreased since being watered , even the fungal gnats think it's moist,lol. At once a day, how much water do you find yourself roughly give per container of yours, at every 2 to 3 days for a full 5x5 tent I use about 20 litres to water. I'd hate to think I've starving them.

 

[VinDeezle]

Just depends on the plant really, but atm I'm putting around 2-3L a day (depending on temp/humidity) through each 3gal pot, spread over one top and one bottom feed as I'm in flower. The gnats can be a pain for sure. I find predatory mites to be good for maintenance. Won't get rid of them but they'll control the larvae well. I always have 3 or 4 flying around but never have any issues from them and it never gets worse. I also enjoy watching the hypoaspis march out of the pots when watering.

If the plants are happy they are happy so I wouldn't stress too much about how much you are putting in, just try keep a steady moisture level as wet/dry cycles do make pH management harder as well (especially in mediums with amendments or slow release). I usually only notice any separation from pot if I miss a few waterings. You might not end up putting much more through but just being regular with waterings might fix the job when it comes to medium shrinkage in the future.

 

[Bear777]

thanks, I'll give it a go and I'll see about getting some of those predatory mites

 

[itchybro]

what size pots are you running bear

as a rule of thumb you wanna water in about 5 to 10% of the pot soil volume , you don't want to see run off , also it helps to water slowly & not lots of water all at once , watering slowly lets the soil wick the moisture round the pot hydrating all the nooks & crannies , similar to what bottom watering does as vin uses , some use a sprayer & will spray the soil surface then leave it for 10-15 minutes then spray again , possibly doing this multiple times & only adding a small amount of water over all

using aloe vera or soap nut extract in your waterings will also help the soil from not drying out as quick , because both of those have a substance called saponins , as a side note saponins are also used as a pesticide which will help with your gnat problem , often used as a emulsifier of oils like neem oil when spraying a pest spray , it helps the oil spread evenly

having a active living soil also helps to keep pests in check , the less moisture in the soil the less living activity you have so getting your moisture on point has many flow on effects

 

[Bear777]

what size pots are you running bear

as a rule of thumb you wanna water in about 5 to 10% of the pot soil volume , you don't want to see run off , also it helps to water slowly & not lots of water all at once , watering slowly lets the soil wick the moisture round the pot hydrating all the nooks & crannies , similar to what bottom watering does as vin uses , some use a sprayer & will spray the soil surface then leave it for 10-15 minutes then spray again , possibly doing this multiple times & only adding a small amount of water over all

using aloe vera or soap nut extract in your waterings will also help the soil from not drying out as quick , because both of those have a substance called saponins , as a side note saponins are also used as a pesticide which will help with your gnat problem , often used as a emulsifier of oils like neem oil when spraying a pest spray , it helps the oil spread evenly

having a active living soil also helps to keep pests in check , the less moisture in the soil the less living activity you have so getting your moisture on point has many flow on effects

So far, I am using 20 and 10 gallon and 5 gallon on smaller yet to be transplanted.
5 to 10% ok, I don't think I have been watering enough then., I have been watering slowly though,and going back to them after doing the rest.

I have something that I thought at first was small not adult gnats, but I over last couple days I think they are maybe something else. I will attach a couple pics where you can see the adult gnats on the yellow sticky along with heaps of these little bugs and these little bugs I first started noticing in the bottom of a humidifier after it shut off to low water level , the little bugs really conjugate in any water, I took a pic of them in run off water I missed last time I watered in one of my plastic pots, I started to notice more problems since seeing these tiny bugs which I didn't know that they flew until I saw on the sticky trap. The gnat population has slightly increased over the last week too.

I was reading the fungus gnat thread and it's been informative too.

Looks like I have some work to do, I appreciate the help.

 

[afghan bob]

Yup they be gnats of the fungus kind
Mate with your smaller pots, when u filling them, press down around the edges and put extra in
Seems to stop any excess water leaking out, just make sure u leave centre nice and loose
Don’t know about 20 gall though

 

[Bear777]

Yup they be gnats of the fungus kind
Mate with your smaller pots, when u filling them, press down around the edges and put extra in
Seems to stop any excess water leaking out, just make sure u leave centre nice and loose
Don’t know about 20 gall though

Are they a different kind of fungus gnat, or just smaller, I never seen the adults in the water yet maybe they like water more when they're that size

 

[afghan bob]

Apparently the adults don’t do much harm
It’s their larvae that u can have problems

 

[Bear777]

Ya I heard that too

 

[Bear777]

Well yesterday, I had to remove the mulch and some of the top layer, scratched in some neem meal and gave some castings as well, I also packed some down the sides firmly, then watered with neem tea. I had forgotten that I had actually put a fairly thick mulch layer down previously, it was around 50mm deep, so I have put a fair bit less in there now so I will be able to more easily add some green manure and it might make it easier top dress in future. I did find obvious signs of underwatering as I was removing the top surface for the gnats as in the 10gallon pots the sides were dry up to 75mm in some, funny how the moisture meter I sometimes had used always said moist to wet, I thought it was because of the 30%coco, wnich is why until this thread I had been just going off the weight and the leaves for signs of not enough water, I will be sure to water more to keep the moisture level more consistent now by daily waterings.

I haven't ever tried bottom watering. Is the typical method just filling the bottom saucer with 'x' amount of water and give it time to wick up that water, and after so long remove any excess still in saucer?
If so, how long would you give to let them wick it up?
Or is there alternative ways that tend to work better from the bottom?

I have already noticed a significant decrease in gnats since removing the top layer yesterday.

Hopefully this week I can get some aloe extract and some predatory mites and see how that goes too.

 

[VinDeezle]

Well yesterday, I had to remove the mulch and some of the top layer, scratched in some neem meal and gave some castings as well, I also packed some down the sides firmly, then watered with neem tea. I had forgotten that I had actually put a fairly thick mulch layer down previously, it was around 50mm deep, so I have put a fair bit less in there now so I will be able to more easily add some green manure and it might make it easier top dress in future. I did find obvious signs of underwatering as I was removing the top surface for the gnats as in the 10gallon pots the sides were dry up to 75mm in some, funny how the moisture meter I sometimes had used always said moist to wet, I thought it was because of the 30%coco, wnich is why until this thread I had been just going off the weight and the leaves for signs of not enough water, I will be sure to water more to keep the moisture level more consistent now by daily waterings.

I haven't ever tried bottom watering. Is the typical method just filling the bottom saucer with 'x' amount of water and give it time to wick up that water, and after so long remove any excess still in saucer?
If so, how long would you give to let them wick it up?
Or is there alternative ways that tend to work better from the bottom?

I have already noticed a significant decrease in gnats since removing the top layer yesterday.

Hopefully this week I can get some aloe extract and some predatory mites and see how that goes too.

Good to hear your getting it sorted out.

Yep, bottom watering is just that. It'll wick quickly if it's got the space for moisture. When I bottom feed it'll usually suck up the 1L I put through every morning pretty quickly. I'll throw through 200-300ml at a time and watch how quickly it wicks

Tbh I bottom water more than I top water these days. I'll throw a few hundred ml through the top to make sure it's evenly moist but that's about it.

I can usually put 2L, maybe more daily through with no runoff or sitting water. Takes about 3L a day to get some minor runoff, or a bit left to wick up over half n hour but theres no need to fully saturate.

I'm roughly putting roughly 7.5-10% of the volume through twice a day which might sound crazy but it's just what the plants like, plus I'm using small pots in comparison (3 gal).

I can see springtails and gnats on your sticky trap. I've never worried about springtails as they are good old decomposers. They'll help break down the organic matter into usable forms.

I'm lucky enough to have self propagating hypoaspis. You'll find most good natural compost or humus deposits will have a large amount of hypoaspis. I haven't had to purchase any so far as I'll use a shovel full of quality yard soil as a booster in most mixes. I've always found natural mite control to be a better option as most pest control options will deter a lot of beneficial decomposers as well.

 

[VinDeezle]

Using hypoaspis to control gnats is just that.. a control, mind you. It took me a while to figure it out as I was always looking to rid every single gnat/larvae from existence which ended up destroying the whole microbiome of the medium at first and the hypoaspis would just pack up and leave.

The key to control from my experience is having a healthy ecosystem. I have jumping spiders which eat the stray gnats and hypoaspis which feed on the larvae, but not at a rate where any one part of the equation dies off.

If I rid of all larvae, the hypoaspis population decreases. If I rid all gnats, the larvae population decreases and the circle continues to flow on. A healthy ecosystem will continue on without an excess of any one part of the equation.

 

[itchybro]

moisture is a constant variable , different temps & humidity , pot size , medium type , plant size , living mulch or just mulch , cultivar type , you can't just apply one rule that fits all with them
moisture meters are good but with the cheap ones you need to explore the readings it spits out , you can make that work though , you just need to play around & workout the happy place for the meter to sit at so you get a better indication of where to keep the little red needle positioned
i like the blumat moisture meter because it gives you a number to aim at rather than the cheap ones being just wet , dry or somewhere in between , either meter will need some trial & error to be done to find the sweet spot for the currant cultivar

 

[Bear777]

Lots to learn getting the moisture level right. I definitely have watered more in the last few days. A large balancing act to learn about, I look forward to it

 

[1212]

in late flower when I drop the humidity 40% I wrap the pot in glad wrap, I haven’t seen a massive change in water collected off the dehumidifier but the soil definitely holds moisture for longer

 

[afghan bob]

Mate, wouldn’t be keeping that glad wrap on 4 to long especially on fabric pots, they designed to breathe and all the little micro critters in your medium well breathing is on their to-do list also
Points 4 coming up with it
Never heard of it before

 

[Bear777]

With watering everyday I definitely get less shrinkage. I missed one day a week or 2 ago and that was all it took to shrink away from the sides a little.